But splices

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Imer101

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Ct
About to change a pannel from fuse to circuit breakers. Some of the wire will be too short. Is it acceptibul to use a but splice inside the newly installed pannel board
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
About to change a pannel from fuse to circuit breakers. Some of the wire will be too short. Is it acceptibul to use a but splice inside the newly installed pannel board

Are you refering to using wirenuts to extend or joint conductors as you would in a junction box?
 

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
Butt splice:

hydralink-multiple-wire-connectors.jpg
 

Ponchik

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Location
CA
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Electronologist
I always use wire nuts. I believe it makes a better connection.
 

Ponchik

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CA
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Electronologist
That seems like too much work. Besides I don't think the crimp connectors are designed for solid conductor.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
As far as I know, most crimped connectors are only rated for stranded wire, so I think that would be the main problem if you were working in a panel with solid wires.

As far as I know they are rated for both solid and stranded.

Here is what Thomas and Betts says,

Are your terminals, splices, and disconnects listed for stranded and solid wire?

You can use both stranded or solid wire on our insulated rings and forks from #26AWG up to #10AWG, our non-insulated rings and forks from #22AWG up to #8AWG, and splices up to #10AWG. Our disconnects are for stranded wire only.
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
Butt splices are perfectly good connectors. They work with (in general) stranded and solid conductors. They need to be crimped with the proper tool, not crushed by your lineman's pliers (unless it has a special crimp below the hinge).

Properly applied they never vibrate loose.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
the typical problem with butt splices is the same problem with crimped on terminals of all kinds. people refuse to use the proper ratcheting type tool and use a plier type tool instead because it is "faster" and they have always done it this way. they either crimp it too hard or not hard enough and it works loose. then they blame this on the connector rather than poor workmanship.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I can't find the Panduit info I remember from a while back where I remember seeing that their crimps were stranded only, but in their catalog most crimped terminals have no mention of solid or stranded wires at all, while some are specifically rated for both stranded and solid (PS, PSN, BS, BSN, BSV, BSH, BSM, BSMV et al.) Doesn't matter since no one around here sells them anyway...

Ideal doesn't have any info on their website at all. I'll have to check the package next time I see one.

3M is rated for stranded only. They're commonly available around here.

Fastenal (Power Phase brand) doesn't have info online.

Other companies also don't mention this. I guess I'll start buying T&B from now on :)

I do use a ratcheting crimp tool for insulated terminals. The pliers type tools feel really hit-or-miss to me now on insulated terminals, but they're ok for non-insulated where I can see the result.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
The following if from the UL Guide Information for "Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV).
Wire stranding ? Unless clearly marked "Solid,""SOL,""Stranded" or "STR" for a given wire size, wire range or wire combination, conductors in the range 30-10 AWG are both solid and stranded, and 8 AWG and larger are for stranded wire only. Connectors additionally rated for metric conductor sizes may be marked with the letter "r" for rigid solid and rigid stranded conductors, or the letter "f" for flexible conductors.
Use of specific tools ? A specific tool and die used to assemble a wire connector to a conductor is identified on the connector, or on or within the unit container of the connector. The identification consists of a catalog or type designation, color-coding, die index number, or equivalent means. Color-coding of the crimp barrel is common.

That being said I have never liked using a crimp connector on solid wire.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
the typical problem with butt splices is the same problem with crimped on terminals of all kinds. people refuse to use the proper ratcheting type tool and use a plier type tool instead because it is "faster" and they have always done it this way. they either crimp it too hard or not hard enough and it works loose. then they blame this on the connector rather than poor workmanship.
I don't think I have ever seen instructions for crimp connectors for conductors #10 and smaller that specified the use of a ratcheting type crimper.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I dont like the looks of wirenutted extensions in a breaker panel.
but, with that being said, I never use crimp on butt splices on solid wire, or, stranded wire either for that
matter when the splice is in a breaker panel.
I always use wirenuts and then ziptye just below the connection back to the wire itself so the connection is
not under any strain if someone happens to need to move the wiring out of the way for some reason.

However, in control panels, I always use butt splices if needed on #10 and smaller stranded wire and
hardly ever use wirenuts.(Go Figure). Course then again, I hardly pull solid wire anyway.

I think it's mostly an individual preference issue.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I don't think I have ever seen instructions for crimp connectors for conductors #10 and smaller that specified the use of a ratcheting type crimper.

I don't know that it's a question of instructions, rather one of UL listing. Panduit is pretty clear about their crimp connectors making UL listed connections only when made with one of their ratcheting type crimp tools. I believe T&B and some others are the same.

BTW, I'm not trying to push Panduit here, it's just that I got a good deal on a CT-1551 on eBay :) Their catalog and compatibility lists are way too confusing for my taste. Add to the mix that their product isn't available locally, and I just buy what's out there and don't worry about UL listings. I still think a ratcheting tool works a whole lot better on insulated connectors than other tools. I've seen guys use the plier style tools on insulated crimps and punch holes through the sleeves because they were using the opening for non-insulated crimps. Not very elegant...
 

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I agree that it is a listing issue. The quote from the UL White Book says the crimp must be made with the tool specified by the terminal manufacturer.
I just have not seen a ratchet type crimper as the only tool specified for terminals used with #10 and smaller conductors.
Panduit's catalog says the following for all of their plier type crimp tools:
Crimps most Panduit #22 ? 10 AWG insulated and non-insulated terminals.
They do say that a controlled crimp tool is preferred but they stop short of saying my must use that type of too. The list of recommended crimping tools for most of the terminals for #10 and smaller wire list the plier type tool as one of the recommended tools. The use of any of the recommended tools will result in a crimp that is complaint with the UL listing.
 
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