working for generals

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keith gigabyte

Senior Member
so heres the deal;
I assume you all give a bit of a better price to general contractors you have a good relationship with and get lots of work from. But how much do you discount as compared to the one time homeowner service rewire or addition or service call.

Just asking opinioins
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I never worked for generals, but I once did work for admirals. :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist.
CDR Charlie Beck, USN (Ret)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I only gave a break to a GC one time and fell for the old "there's more work coming" after that everyone pays the same. How I worked was, depending on how good of a customer you were made the difference on where you were on the priority list.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I only gave a break to a GC one time and fell for the old "there's more work coming" after that everyone pays the same. How I worked was, depending on how good of a customer you were made the difference on where you were on the priority list.

During a slow cycle in the 1980's a friend of mine had no work for his framing crew. A developer comes along and asks if he will frame 4 homes for him and let him pay when they sell. He said ok and did the work.

Turns out they were model units.

That developer had claimed bankruptcy 3 times as of then. And people still worked for the guy.
 

Daja7

Senior Member
I only gave a break to a GC one time and fell for the old "there's more work coming" after that everyone pays the same. How I worked was, depending on how good of a customer you were made the difference on where you were on the priority list.

I did that once as well, they will just go to the next sucker after that. now i tell them lets work this one for regular pricing then we can talk about quantity pricing and terms. Funny they didn't seem to like that. I have a price that i need to get to stay in business, just like the G C's. Nothing changes.
 
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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I only gave a break to a GC one time and fell for the old "there's more work coming" after that everyone pays the same.
You're not the only one that's fallen for that line. But like the old addage goes "Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me".

FWIW, if you need the work to stay alive take the job but make sure you're making some $$. If times are good and you have enough work then tell them to find someone else just starting out in business willing to work for food.:p

Another FWIW, you're not going to get rich by working for a GC. They make all the $$ - you're not allowed to make any. It's all about the cheapest price.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
The worst are the GCs who want you to send an already packed bill to the final customer and sending them a check with their percentage. Forget ever getting repeat business from that customer... I had one guy try this with me once. I don't take his calls anymore.
 

chazbolin

Member
Location
san diego
GC's have a product to sell. If you made a part for a Chevy would you not do business with them because they try and get a better deal out of you? Perhaps offer you larger volume to get greater discounts? Of course you'd take that deal. Some GC's are just not to be trusted. They look at short term gains like if I do stand on the necks of my subs I'll get more work out of my client. Subs take these jobs on competitive bid which in and of itself awards the low bid not the lowest qualified bid. The GC's are going to get the jobs based on track record, bonding capacity, and at least on public sector lowest qualified bid. What pisses me off and gets me to quit doing business with any GC is when they stand on my neck and say stupid shit like 'you should have had that in your bid' when the work was not shown on the drawings because the owners EE missed it. On competitive bid projects I bid what is put in front of me and will prebid qualify what is a request for information. Just because your clients EE missed the entire fire alarm system (seriously) in a new school don't expect me to eat it Mr. GC. Go back to your Errors and Omissions clause on the EE. And once we're done with this job I won't be working for you again.
:happyno:
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
What (beep),s me off and gets me to quit doing business with any GC is when they stand on my neck and say stupid (beep) like 'you should have had that in your bid' when the work was not shown on the drawings because the owners EE missed it. On competitive bid projects I bid what is put in front of me and will prebid qualify what is a request for information. Just because your clients EE missed the entire fire alarm system (seriously) in a new school don't expect me to eat it Mr. GC. Go back to your Errors and Omissions clause on the EE. And once we're done with this job I won't be working for you again.
:happyno:
I agree 100%. If all the subs bid on the same set of drawings the numbers are going to be reasonably close. It's when they leave out the FA system on the dwgs., like in your case, or they say "You knew there was a kitchen in this new house, didn't you figure wiring in a 40 amp double wall oven with a 100' run to the breaker panel"? Or better yet "You knew this was a 10,000 sq ft house why didn't you figure there would be (3) 5 ton AC units"? And with all of that in mind your price should have been at least equal or lower than the other prices I got. :rant:
 

Greg1707

Senior Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Business owner Electrical contractor
avoiding work with GCs

avoiding work with GCs

I assume that at least 75% of the money in our industry is on jobs involving GCs? If we avoid work with GCs does that not greatly limit available work.
Just for the sake of discussion, what are examples of profitable work that does not involve a GC? I mean, installing ceiling fans and light fixtures for home owners only goes so far?
 

GUNNING

Senior Member
GC's s**k

GC's s**k

I have never found a GC I can successfully work with. I have been doing this for twenty years. Go figure. A friend of mine, who was a plumber, said when the water is running no price is too high. There is not that kind of immediate need in being a service electrician. GC's have made the sale and are looking to make money. Its all green and yours will do. Know your costs and itemize then you can "bid" appropriately.
 

__dan

Senior Member
I assume that at least 75% of the money in our industry is on jobs involving GCs? If we avoid work with GCs does that not greatly limit available work.
Just for the sake of discussion, what are examples of profitable work that does not involve a GC? I mean, installing ceiling fans and light fixtures for home owners only goes so far?

You can try chasing property management companies and the property managers if you want to get (barely) one step up from the GC's. Best is to work directly for the corporate or company owner's, tier one owner's are themselves profitable every year, or if you can specialize in something that is technical and in relatively high or steady demand but the technical expertise required sets you apart in your own niche, something with programmable or automated controls, software, large capital equipment testing, maintenance, factory supported service. You need a select niche and a relationship with few paying tier one customers.

Many of the GC's come from ( ) trades and got tired of everyone knowing their numbers at bid time, so they tried to move one step up the food chain. That is, not by merit but by giving up on the work and trying to play the game. Quality and pride is bred out of the business. Many GC's are not fit to survive and are willing to take others out with them. They should get their own circle of hell and leave the working tradespeople alone.
 

masterinbama

Senior Member
What pisses me off and gets me to quit doing business with any GC is when they stand on my neck and say stupid shit like 'you should have had that in your bid' when the work was not shown on the drawings because the owners EE missed it. On competitive bid projects I bid what is put in front of me and will prebid qualify what is a request for information. Just because your clients EE missed the entire fire alarm system (seriously) in a new school don't expect me to eat it Mr. GC. Go back to your Errors and Omissions clause on the EE. And once we're done with this job I won't be working for you again.
:happyno:

I had one in South Alabama that tried to back charge me for extra work he paid another contractor to do even though it was clearly posted on the drawings that the underground portion of the service was to be priced later due to utility engineering drawings not being available at the time of the bid.

I took his $12,000 back charge added my 20% markup to it and submitted it back to the Architects and Engineers as a change order. Guess who wasn't too happy?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I probably get 80% of my income from general contractors and in the 30+ years of doing business I have never been beaten out of money. Most of my generals I have been working with for 20-30 years. Sometimes I have to wait 30 days and occasionally longer but it always comes. The one contractor that takes more than 30 days I have told I was adding more cost to my price to be his banker-- he didn't care.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
I probably get 80% of my income from general contractors and in the 30+ years of doing business I have never been beaten out of money. Most of my generals I have been working with for 20-30 years. Sometimes I have to wait 30 days and occasionally longer but it always comes. The one contractor that takes more than 30 days I have told I was adding more cost to my price to be his banker-- he didn't care.

I agree with the banker analogy. We started work for a new turf vendor a year ago, net 30. Average days to pay 40, including mail time, so that's fine for me. I get net 45 for most suppliers.


All of sudden 6 months ago PO's show up Net 45. Checks dated the due date, but envelopes postmarked 60-67 days.

The contract was ambiguous on term changes. So I started sending estimates in 15-20% higher, and when questioned about this, I explained carrying costs. Response.... ok fair enough.

It's good to be the bank if they'll pay!!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
GC's have a product to sell. If you made a part for a Chevy would you not do business with them because they try and get a better deal out of you? Perhaps offer you larger volume to get greater discounts? Of course you'd take that deal. Some GC's are just not to be trusted. They look at short term gains like if I do stand on the necks of my subs I'll get more work out of my client. Subs take these jobs on competitive bid which in and of itself awards the low bid not the lowest qualified bid. The GC's are going to get the jobs based on track record, bonding capacity, and at least on public sector lowest qualified bid. What pisses me off and gets me to quit doing business with any GC is when they stand on my neck and say stupid shit like 'you should have had that in your bid' when the work was not shown on the drawings because the owners EE missed it. On competitive bid projects I bid what is put in front of me and will prebid qualify what is a request for information. Just because your clients EE missed the entire fire alarm system (seriously) in a new school don't expect me to eat it Mr. GC. Go back to your Errors and Omissions clause on the EE. And once we're done with this job I won't be working for you again.
:happyno:
One difference in your analogy here is there are thousands of GC's, compared to how many auto manufacturers are out there. Sure GM is going to do some shopping for a supplier for certain parts, but we are talking about some fairly significant contract figures compared to many of the contracts with a GC, and probably more carefully outlined contract details in general as well.

I agree 100%. If all the subs bid on the same set of drawings the numbers are going to be reasonably close. It's when they leave out the FA system on the dwgs., like in your case, or they say "You knew there was a kitchen in this new house, didn't you figure wiring in a 40 amp double wall oven with a 100' run to the breaker panel"? Or better yet "You knew this was a 10,000 sq ft house why didn't you figure there would be (3) 5 ton AC units"? And with all of that in mind your price should have been at least equal or lower than the other prices I got. :rant:
I would probably have noticed any missing information on AC units on such a job, and either requested more information or submitted bid specifically stating that was an add on if they wouldn't give me any information. Then I probably would be high enough with the bid anyway that it wouldn't be taken for lowest bid purpose only, and if they refuse to give me all information needed to come up with a bid I would be hoping not to get the job anyway, sounds like disaster waiting to happen from the start.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I probably get 80% of my income from general contractors and in the 30+ years of doing business I have never been beaten out of money. Most of my generals I have been working with for 20-30 years. Sometimes I have to wait 30 days and occasionally longer but it always comes. The one contractor that takes more than 30 days I have told I was adding more cost to my price to be his banker-- he didn't care.
You're one of the lucky ones Dennis. Go buy a lottery ticket while you're on a roll.:cool:
 

CT Tom

Member
Location
Connecticut USA
I have an AV contractor that I do work for. He takes my bid and passes it along, when it comes time to pay invoices, he keeps 10% of labor. Easy work and easy money. Any calls/payment issues etc are handled by him and passed to me if it is an issue that I should be looped in on. He and I are on net 5. Works very well. I used to think I should hide that 10% elsewhere, but I look at all the jobs I've done for him where all I had to do was show up, shut up, install/wire stuff and then get paid...well worth to 10%.

A contractor I work for, I bill and get paid no cut required. I also get payment priority over all other subs...then again he is my father :p

The other contractors/home owners I work for, I get material payments up front, and when ever possible I take it via credit card. Never had an issue getting paid, and for the few who said no payment till done, I thanked them for their time and move on. Like others have said, I'm not running Bank of Tom here.

And to the wealthiest being the worst, have an outstanding $12k from a banking industry executive unpaid. If I gave the name and you googled her, she'd be all over the first 2 pages...think she'd pay an open invoice... (lawyers are currently involved):rant:
 
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