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Thread: Would you (an inspector) call this subject to abuse? GEC

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Now drill the joists and pull same conductor through the holes - they magically are no longer subject to the same abuse. Same with your smaller size NM cables.

    Yes, to the first part.
    I never thought it had so much to do with abuse as much as it did the stress put on the smaller conductors that would need to be pulled tight before stapling them to the bottom of the joists.

    At least that's the only reason I can come up with for having to drill the holes which I don't do.

    I'll put up runners if I have to before I drill a holes in a perfectly sound floor joist.


    JAP>

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwaskowitz View Post
    No this is not already installed. I'm just trying to educate myself by getting others' experiences. I guess I jut don't see how a #2 aluminum single conductor is more at risk than an 8-3 Romex.
    It's not that it's at more risk of damage, it's that it's a more critical component of the system and thus requires more protection. If a single romex circuit gets damaged, the danger is limited to that circuit and likely to be noticed if the circuit stops functioning. If the GEC gets disconnected, then every circuit in the building may be susceptible to unstable voltage as well as unsafe voltage to ground, but the danger may not be noticed until someone or something gets damaged.

    (That, at least, is the theory.)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggedben View Post
    It's not that it's at more risk of damage, it's that it's a more critical component of the system and thus requires more protection. If a single romex circuit gets damaged, the danger is limited to that circuit and likely to be noticed if the circuit stops functioning. If the GEC gets disconnected, then every circuit in the building may be susceptible to unstable voltage as well as unsafe voltage to ground, but the danger may not be noticed until someone or something gets damaged.

    (That, at least, is the theory.)
    I would think unstable voltages to the whole system would be much more noticeable than a single branch circuit that may not be working.
    Generally the bonding done where a #6 is used across floorjoist to get somewhere is just that, not so much to stabilize the voltage like at the service Transfomer.
    If a #6 bonding jumper was to come loose from a water pipe I doubt you'd ever see a fluctuation of system voltage.


    JAP>

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwaskowitz View Post
    No this is not already installed. I'm just trying to educate myself by getting others' experiences. I guess I jut don't see how a #2 aluminum single conductor is more at risk than an 8-3 Romex. I don't understand what kind of abuse is being anticipated here. What would be the worst thing that might happen if you whacked the#2 with with a hammer or hung clothes from it?
    IMO nothing will happen.
    Rob

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    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaggedben View Post
    It's not that it's at more risk of damage, it's that it's a more critical component of the system and thus requires more protection. If a single romex circuit gets damaged, the danger is limited to that circuit and likely to be noticed if the circuit stops functioning. If the GEC gets disconnected, then every circuit in the building may be susceptible to unstable voltage as well as unsafe voltage to ground, but the danger may not be noticed until someone or something gets damaged.

    (That, at least, is the theory.)
    Then there are those of us who think they put to much emphasis on the importance of grounding electrode systems, especially when connected to utility power where there is already a huge electrode system.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Then there are those of us who think they put to much emphasis on the importance of grounding electrode systems, especially when connected to utility power where there is already a huge electrode system.
    I would think it would have a lot to do with where the Lightning decides to hit.

    JAP>

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    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post
    I would think unstable voltages to the whole system would be much more noticeable than a single branch circuit that may not be working.
    Generally the bonding done where a #6 is used across floorjoist to get somewhere is just that, not so much to stabilize the voltage like at the service Transfomer.
    If a #6 bonding jumper was to come loose from a water pipe I doubt you'd ever see a fluctuation of system voltage.


    JAP>
    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Then there are those of us who think they put to much emphasis on the importance of grounding electrode systems, especially when connected to utility power where there is already a huge electrode system.
    Yes, well, no real arguments there. See my last parenthetical sentence. I was just trying to explain that historically the code makers have had a strong bias towards keeping grounded systems grounded, and thus provided extra rules for the GEC.

    I agree that unstable voltages are more likely to be noticed across the system l, but what I said was that something or someone is more likely to get damaged. As in, shocked by parts that should be grounded but aren't, or fried by inappropriate voltage. I stand by that, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwaskowitz View Post
    I guess I jut don't see how a #2 aluminum single conductor is more at risk than an 8-3 Romex.
    If the inspector decides the 8-3 is subject to damage you can't run that under the joists either.

    Again it's an inspector call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post
    I would think it would have a lot to do with where the Lightning decides to hit.

    JAP>
    And if it even makes it's way to the electrical system.

    Direct hit to a structure, a grounding electrode may change how current flows in the event, you still will have some likely significant damage.

    Surge coming in on the supply line because of a nearby strike, it may actually help you out some. IMO that is about all a GES is useful for on a utility supplied system, or similar event involving higher voltage line contacting a lower voltage line. There may still be some damages but it may help minimize it.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    And if it even makes it's way to the electrical system.

    Direct hit to a structure, a grounding electrode may change how current flows in the event, you still will have some likely significant damage.

    Surge coming in on the supply line because of a nearby strike, it may actually help you out some. IMO that is about all a GES is useful for on a utility supplied system, or similar event involving higher voltage line contacting a lower voltage line. There may still be some damages but it may help minimize it.
    Surges from nearby lightning strikes do actually help out.
    That's why I never get on the Treadmill during a storm.
    Not that its dangerous, it's just that every time lightning hits close, the surge speeds up the motor and makes me have to walk faster.
    I like to get on it when the AC is on, my wife is cooking something in the oven and my kid is drying his hair in the bathroom with the Heat/fan/light on.
    It's much easier to keep the pace that way.

    JAP>

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