Teen Dies Days After Touching Electrified Fence On School Football Field

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foo

Member
Location
United States
geez, aren't those fences just supposed to be animal deterrents? They're not even suppose to harm small animals are they?

edit: nm, it wasn't supposed to be one of those kind of fences...
 
Last edited:

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sad that had to happen, nothing in the news link about any possible causes.

If someone finds updates on the reasons why this happened please post them here, we will all learn more from those facts then just knowing the fence was electrified somehow. Unfortunately the media likely will not get the facts straight and we will still be misled some when information is out there.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
141004-1405 EDT

This occurred in Ypsilanti, MI the home of Eastern Michigan University in a high school football field. Ypsi is 5 miles to the east of me.

The newspapers and TV have been very meager on any details relative to the cause. Immeadiately after the occurance some meters, probes (screwdrivers), long probe leads, and some load resistors could have provided some quick information on the causal conditions. Handytalkies as well.

Apparently for some time before this severe shock many students had been getting shocked. I can't believe this information was never passed on to non-students.

Within a few hours a general idea of the cause could have been determined. If the problem was extremely random, then it would take longer to find the origin of the current.

We have very poor newspaper reporting. See the articles:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/10/update_lincoln_student_said_do.html
Almost seems like a coverup.
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor..._troopers_lincoln.html#incart_related_stories

Really no information on the cause is being reported.

.
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Had a similar incident (though not fatal) in Alaska. We (the POCO) got a call that there was smoke coming from the grass near a chain link fence in a school yard. Line crew went out and grounded the fence under the overhead power lines by driving a few ground rods, thinking it was induction. Another call a few days later saying an employee got a shock when he was locking a gate. Our engineer went out and decided we needed to ground the fence in multiple places. I, being a meter/relay tech, went along. We read 118V from the fence to a nearby well casing. We ran a jumper of bare #6 copper from the fence to the casing and measured voltage to ground again. Measured 0V. We did see a spark when we grounded the wire. But...about thirty seconds later, I noticed the wire was smoking and beginning to sag. Then it quit and cooled off. Well, we figured we had a trip of the overhead circuit. Called dispatch, and no trips. The school maintenance guy came out and said they lost power to part of a shop building. We found a tripped 30A breaker inside. Well, long story short, they had done some remodeling and drove a screw through a hot wire behind a sheet metal wall. Had nothing to do with induction. But talking to the maintenance guy, he said it had been that way for weeks, and the kids (elementary school) had been going up to the fence and touching it to feel the "tickle". Wow! They may have some detective work to do to solve this one.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I guess a well casing is one of those earth electrodes that actually has a chance of tripping a breaker on overcurrent.
But it sure took awhile. :)
And although you measured 0V between fence and well casing, I suspect that you would have seen a higher voltage to remote earth.
And I bet that screw was getting really hot at the same time as your bond wire.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Had a similar incident (though not fatal) in Alaska. We (the POCO) got a call that there was smoke coming from the grass near a chain link fence in a school yard. Line crew went out and grounded the fence under the overhead power lines by driving a few ground rods, thinking it was induction. Another call a few days later saying an employee got a shock when he was locking a gate. Our engineer went out and decided we needed to ground the fence in multiple places. I, being a meter/relay tech, went along. We read 118V from the fence to a nearby well casing. We ran a jumper of bare #6 copper from the fence to the casing and measured voltage to ground again. Measured 0V. We did see a spark when we grounded the wire. But...about thirty seconds later, I noticed the wire was smoking and beginning to sag. Then it quit and cooled off. Well, we figured we had a trip of the overhead circuit. Called dispatch, and no trips. The school maintenance guy came out and said they lost power to part of a shop building. We found a tripped 30A breaker inside. Well, long story short, they had done some remodeling and drove a screw through a hot wire behind a sheet metal wall. Had nothing to do with induction. But talking to the maintenance guy, he said it had been that way for weeks, and the kids (elementary school) had been going up to the fence and touching it to feel the "tickle". Wow! They may have some detective work to do to solve this one.
Unfortunately for those of us reading on this site we want to know more technical details, and in the OP story, we are relying on news media that doesn't have or understand any technical info they do receive so we can not diagnose much based of the media stories, and if they do report something significant but have it wrong it will mislead us the wrong way.

In your incident just telling us that the fence had 118 volts to ground is a pretty good indication to most of us that it is very likely energized directly by an ungrounded conductor of a 120 volt circuit (or at least a conductor that is 120 to ground), it may turn out not be, but is the first thing most of us would be looking for, see if we can at least find the branch circuit that is energizing it.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
141005-1330 EDT

Today's Ann Arbor News article provides no new information relating to the cause of the fence being energized. "The cause is being investigated". There is certainly some information by now. Clearly a coverup to not provide what information is presently available.

At low voltage my skin surface resistance between squezed probes by opposite hands is about 500,000 ohms with a Simpson 260, and 11 megohms with a Fluke 27. A long time ago I got a slight shock (tingle) from a 6 V battery (horn ring to car door frame) on a hot sweaty night. At higher voltages there may be a much lower apparent resistance before actual physical breakdown of the skin surface. There is a big difference between individuals in surface resistance because of the difference in surface moisture, and as it varies.

What different objects could the boy have touched while touching the fence? What are the open circuit voltages between these objects? How much current flows thru a 5000 ohm load between these points? And in turn the voltage across that 5000 ohm resistor? How much current thru a 1500 W heater (could be around 10 A at 120 V) (1500 W is a loose discription)?

Power to the stadium was turned off. Did that remove the voltage?

With power on to the stadium what breakers had to be turned off, if any, to remove the voltage?

There are no investigative reporters any more. When I have tried to call reporters in the past about mis, incomplete, or false statements I can not get a response. Today reporters purpose is to fill some space with a sensational discussion to attract attention. Many reporters are not competent to write about the subject they have been assigned.

.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
141005-1330 EDT

Today's Ann Arbor News article provides no new information relating to the cause of the fence being energized. "The cause is being investigated". There is certainly some information by now. Clearly a coverup to not provide what information is presently available.

At low voltage my skin surface resistance between squezed probes by opposite hands is about 500,000 ohms with a Simpson 260, and 11 megohms with a Fluke 27. A long time ago I got a slight shock (tingle) from a 6 V battery (horn ring to car door frame) on a hot sweaty night. At higher voltages there may be a much lower apparent resistance before actual physical breakdown of the skin surface. There is a big difference between individuals in surface resistance because of the difference in surface moisture, and as it varies.

What different objects could the boy have touched while touching the fence? What are the open circuit voltages between these objects? How much current flows thru a 5000 ohm load between these points? And in turn the voltage across that 5000 ohm resistor? How much current thru a 1500 W heater (could be around 10 A at 120 V) (1500 W is a loose discription)?

Power to the stadium was turned off. Did that remove the voltage?

With power on to the stadium what breakers had to be turned off, if any, to remove the voltage?

There are no investigative reporters any more. When I have tried to call reporters in the past about mis, incomplete, or false statements I can not get a response. Today reporters purpose is to fill some space with a sensational discussion to attract attention. Many reporters are not competent to write about the subject they have been assigned.

.
Investigators (whoever that may be) probably will not release any information to general public at least until their investigation is complete. When media gets a hold of it that information will be butchered and those that do understand the investigation report will never know what it really said if they don't see an unedited report, media will not understand it and will put bits and pieces together to tell a story that may not be accurate at all.

It is likely the school did nothing wrong aside from possibly disregarding previous shock incidents, for liability reasons they are wise to not release any specific details until investigation is over whether they were negligent for something or not. They may even have someone they contracted to do some work that was the root cause of this accident, remaining silent now may help them should they feel they need to build a case against that party. That party could still be innocent and it could come down to a fourth party installation that ultimately was what failed, and the third party activity just happend to be the catalyst of the whole thing.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
141005-1451 EDT

kwired:

The problem with not getting valid information out early in a story is that as time goes on the story is forgotten.

We had various incidents of smart meter fires or significant problems. There has never been any useful followup information. Nor were any good questions asked at the time that would have provided insight into the cause. Were there flickering lights before the meter was installed? Did the lights flicker after the meter was installed? Where did overheating appear to start within the meter or meter socket? Who was the meter manufacturer? Was the meter a plug-in or bolt-on? Mine is a bolt-on, not common.

On the subject of electric, magnetic, or electro-magnetic human sensitivity there were only claims by individuals that the meter change caused them to have some physical problem. There were never any tests on those individuals to determine whether they could really sense these fields, and if they could, then at what level was this sensitivity detectable.

If a person claims to be electo-sensitive and are unwilling to be tested, then their claims should not be given great coverage.

Except for national security purposes I think that public related information should be freely available.

.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
141005-1451 EDT

kwired:

The problem with not getting valid information out early in a story is that as time goes on the story is forgotten.

We had various incidents of smart meter fires or significant problems. There has never been any useful followup information. Nor were any good questions asked at the time that would have provided insight into the cause. Were there flickering lights before the meter was installed? Did the lights flicker after the meter was installed? Where did overheating appear to start within the meter or meter socket? Who was the meter manufacturer? Was the meter a plug-in or bolt-on? Mine is a bolt-on, not common.

On the subject of electric, magnetic, or electro-magnetic human sensitivity there were only claims by individuals that the meter change caused them to have some physical problem. There were never any tests on those individuals to determine whether they could really sense these fields, and if they could, then at what level was this sensitivity detectable.

If a person claims to be electo-sensitive and are unwilling to be tested, then their claims should not be given great coverage.

Except for national security purposes I think that public related information should be freely available.

.
But this circumstance involves a death. Can you blame the school for not releasing any information prematurely for legal reasons? What is said prematurely could come back and get you, you have to keep things you say pretty neutral at very least until you know yourself what happened if you are the one that may have some liability. And media will twist anything you say as well. When technical data does become available, media will not necessarily understand it and will also twist it to what they want or think, so release of such information has to be done somewhat carefully.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
But this circumstance involves a death. Can you blame the school for not releasing any information prematurely for legal reasons? What is said prematurely could come back and get you, you have to keep things you say pretty neutral at very least until you know yourself what happened if you are the one that may have some liability. And media will twist anything you say as well. When technical data does become available, media will not necessarily understand it and will also twist it to what they want or think, so release of such information has to be done somewhat carefully.
Like others here I too, am curious about the fence near a school of all places became electrified.
Anyway, I pretty much agree with your post.
Perhaps we may never know exactly what happened but I feel very strongly that someone should be held accountable and charged with manslaughter for this terrible and tragic incident.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
True story several years ago in the region where I live. A small child was electrocuted when contacting the above ground portion of a domestic well casing that was energized. I don't recall what new media published anymore about details of the cause but were not even close to what really happened.

I found out from State Elecrical Inspector who had been involved in the investigation what actually happend. Someone had made a repair to the underground cable supplying this well at some time and either failed to connect the equipment grounding conductor or had a poor connection in the EGC, can't recall exactly which, but the problem was this failure allowed the casing to become energized when there was a ground fault inside the casing. I had no details of who did what and really don't care, but that is what media will eat up, all I want to know as an electrical professional is just exactly what failed so I can try to prevent that same thing from happening from my work. Probably most of us here are interested in the same thing for this incident at the football field, but will never hear any technical details, just twisted words from the media.

My guess is the person making that repair did not realize just how important that conductor might be and likely was not really an electrical professional either. Was it worth it in that case not to hire a professional?

We have had many posts of electrocutions at pools and marinas that we never really know exactly what happened either. If you don't get information from inside the investigation you never know what information to trust.
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Someone had made a repair to the underground cable supplying this well at some time and either failed to connect the equipment grounding conductor or had a poor connection in the EGC, can't recall exactly which, but the problem was this failure allowed the casing to become energized when there was a ground fault inside the casing.

My guess is the person making that repair did not realize just how important that conductor might be and likely was not really an electrical professional either. Was it worth it in that case not to hire a professional?
The most common violations I see in old work are related to the EGC and bonding.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
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