1 wire considered 2??

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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Bob summed it up nicely. :cool:

Yes it will work, probably without fail for 100 years, but that still doesn't make it right.
 

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
And even if it were right, that still doesn't make it code compliant. :D


Not trying to cause trouble but what code section is it a violation of. I know its an interpretation of some people here that is not right and that's ok because it's there opinion. Here in Massachusetts if it does not meet code the inspector needs to put it in writing if he rejects the job. And he has quoted me he is not going to do that. Which leads me to believe that it may not be a violation.

Trust me I want inspectors to scrutinize my work because we do good work and I know they won't find anything wrong. I wish inspectors would be more thorough when doing inspections because some of the work I have seen getting passed is scary. I know that on a 5 million dollar project the inspector is only going to be there for a few hours and will only look at the major points. This is due to a couple of factors including inspections after hours if the inspector is part time and also the fees collected do not justify be onsite more that 2 or 3 times.

Part of my job is doing inspection on sites that have been bought or are being bought by investors. This includes Wind, hydro and utility grade solar facilities. I do not know how some of these contractors, installers, inspectors, electrical and mechanical and engineers can sleep at night with some of the stuff I have seen. I have been told my reports are toxic.

Sample of what I have seen in the past year on projects that were built and inspected by a municipal inspector within the last 18 months included the following.

Disconnects with the feed on the load side.
Disconnects installed upside down.
EMT spanning 22' with nor support or hangers.
Wrong size feeder cables installed (400 mcm aluminum used in place of 500 mcm copper fused at 400 amps.
Parallel feeders not terminated the same on both ends.
Different size cables used for parallel conductors.
Connections not torqued to specified settings.
13.8 MV conductors mixed in with 600 volt rated wire in a junction box.
A nema 1 boxed used outdoors to splice MV cables in.
Multiple conduits on roof tops with no expansion fittings.
Wrong color coding on solar DC systems

I could add another 100 items to this list.

My reports go to the owner of the sites or the prospective buyers of the sites and not to the municipal inspector. Not sure how the inspector would take it if he seen what I found. Granted I will spend weeks on a job going over every little detail and the local inspector cannot do that.

PS i did pickup an additional lug for the buss bar if I need to put it on. But that wont happen until I get it in writing that what I installed was not to code.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
PS i did pickup an additional lug for the buss bar if I need to put it on. But that wont happen until I get it in writing that what I installed was not to code.


Glad to hear that you are standing up to the inspector.

I still don't know why you just don't use the lug without folding the wire and be done.
 

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
Glad to hear that you are standing up to the inspector.

I still don't know why you just don't use the lug without folding the wire and be done.


This is the type of ground bar I had. If I cut the wire than I could not have installed the 2 wires properly as I would only have 1 spot to install the wire. We just pulled through the box so a small loop was made in the ground to terminate it. Like I said in a previous post here I do have a lug with me if I haft to install it I will. If not it will be in the truck.

IMG_20141118_090131797.jpg
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Ok so pull the wire completely through the hole and be done.
Who cares if you block some screws , just remove them.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
No I did not pull it through I folded the wire over and installed it under the lug.
So unfold the wire, pull it through and tighten the lug and you are good to go. How far is it from the j box to the panel?

Ok so pull the wire completely through the hole and be done.
Who cares if you block some screws , just remove them.
Probably won't even loose access to the screw terminals.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
This is the type of ground bar I had. If I cut the wire than I could not have installed the 2 wires properly as I would only have 1 spot to install the wire. We just pulled through the box so a small loop was made in the ground to terminate it. Like I said in a previous post here I do have a lug with me if I haft to install it I will. If not it will be in the truck.

IMG_20141118_090131797.jpg
What manufacturer supplies that bar? Most of the ones I've seen that are like that one accept up to 4 AWG in the smaller holes.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Gennerally, on grounding buss bars like the one the OP has shown will instruct multiple wires under a single lug for EGC & single connections for Grounded conductors are compliant, however the larger single lug shown in the initial pics may be rated for single wire applications only. Have to look at the markings on the single lug to be sure.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Gennerally, on grounding buss bars like the one the OP has shown will instruct multiple wires under a single lug for EGC & single connections for Grounded conductors are compliant, however the larger single lug shown in the initial pics may be rated for single wire applications only. Have to look at the markings on the single lug to be sure.

When rated for multiple conductors, it is for the smaller holes not the add on lug, and usually is only for specific sizes - typically 12 and 14 AWG only. If using multiple conductors in one hole they must also be same size, can't put a 12 and a 14 in same hole - this makes sense because the smaller conductor may not get same contact pressure or may not even be tight at all.
 
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