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Thread: MAIN BREAKER QUAGMIRE - HELP

  1. #1
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    MAIN BREAKER QUAGMIRE - HELP

    I'm stumped and need some help understanding what and why it's happening. I've tried to research my answer but I'm unable to find the answer I'm looking for. This is what is happening currently on one of my "Emergency Calls".

    The Call: The house has no electricity. Customer called the electric company who states the main is on without issue.
    Name:  IMG_0852 2X.jpg
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    TEST RESULTS
    Breaker "ON" Position:
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • TERMINAL 1 TO TERMINAL 2 - 0 VOLT

    Breaker "OFF" Position:

    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L1 TO GROUND - 120V
    • SERVICE L2 TO GROUND - 120V
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO TERMINAL 2 - 0 VOLTS



    CONCLUSION: Breaker is obviously not functioning properly. It needs to be replaced. I need to understand why I get 0 Volts from incoming service lines ONLY when the breaker is in the off position. To be clear, I'm testing the service lines before they even get to the breaker, they should always be hot. When you remove the breaker the terminal blades are hot. Very confusing.

    Does anyone have any idea what's going on in this situation?

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    Meter may be bad not letting power to main breaker even though power company says power is on


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    This was the problem on service call I had last week the meter was bad


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    Meter may be bad. When the main is off, what ever IS getting through the meter has a chance to bring that small section of wire up to potential. When the main is on however, all the loads in the home drag down the voltage so you see none. Open the meter pan, and do your tests with the main on and off, before and after the meter. Then get the power company out there.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybatrex View Post
    TEST RESULTS
    Breaker "ON" Position:
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • TERMINAL 1 TO TERMINAL 2 - 0 VOLT


    I need to understand why I get 0 Volts from incoming service lines ONLY when the breaker is in the off position.
    With an open service Neutral (energized or not), SERVICE L1 or L2 TO GROUND should be 0 VOLTS with Breaker "ON".

    Any claims to Homeowner insurance or GL policies are void when OSHA is violated by removing main with meter in place.

    After meter is removed, service neutral can be checked at meter stabs, and customer-side busing can be meggered.
    Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybatrex View Post
    The Call: The house has no electricity. Customer called the electric company who states the main is on without issue.
    Name:  IMG_0852 2X.jpg
Views: 613
Size:  134.9 KB


    TEST RESULTS
    Breaker "ON" Position:
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • TERMINAL 1 TO TERMINAL 2 - 0 VOLT

    Breaker "OFF" Position:

    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 2 TO GROUND - 0 VOLTS (LESS THAN 1V)
    • SERVICE L1 TO GROUND - 120V
    • SERVICE L2 TO GROUND - 120V
    • BREAKER TERMINAL 1 TO TERMINAL 2 - 0 VOLTS



    CONCLUSION: Breaker is obviously not functioning properly. It needs to be replaced. I need to understand why I get 0 Volts from incoming service lines ONLY when the breaker is in the off position. To be clear, I'm testing the service lines before they even get to the breaker, they should always be hot. When you remove the breaker the terminal blades are hot.
    There is an inconsistency between your written and table information.

    What I pick up on is that the Service Conductors have voltage readings that change, depending upon the Service Disconnect Breaker position.

    I submit that you need to follow the [voltage / absence of voltage] upstream from the LOAD side of the 125 Amp breaker to both the LOAD and LINE sides of the meter socket with the meter plugged in. In order to accurately do this, you have to be confident of the Grounding Electrode System that you are using to reference from. Is it connected to a viable grounding electrode and is the grounding electrode conductor continuous to the pictured Service Disconnect? Once you are sure of that, measure from the Service Disconnect neutral bus to the various points along the Service Conductors.

    Because of the symptoms you've shared, I don't think you can trust the Power Company grounded service conductor in the Service Disconnect to, in fact, be connected to the transformer, and / or the distribution grid grounds. That is, a splice, or splices, along the circuit path to the transformer may likely be high impedance connections.

    If the voltage on the service entrance conductive path is 0 V at the LINE side of the meter, then the connection failure belongs to the power company (I am assuming a simple 120 / 240 V overhead service.)
    Another Al in Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by truck41trouble View Post
    Meter may be bad. When the main is off, what ever IS getting through the meter has a chance to bring that small section of wire up to potential. When the main is on however, all the loads in the home drag down the voltage so you see none. Open the meter pan, and do your tests with the main on and off, before and after the meter. Then get the power company out there.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
    This. Also, between where you drew the first "L2" arrow and the seconds "L1" arrow, the plastic appears cracked there; possible lug failure behind the plastic?

    What happens when you put a load across the terminals? Do you have a 240V light bulb with clips to test with?
    I'm with the others who write the meter (or can) is likely bad despite the POCO saying otherwise
    Last edited by JFletcher; 08-06-17 at 10:14 PM.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

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    Can I guess ?????

    the breaker is a load and not a dead short. it is in the same state of "normally something" whether in the on or off position ?????

    Hmmm than shouldn't it be glowing ? ;- )

    It's somehow connected enough through the breaker that it's only letting partial voltage thru the breaker in a normally something (on) state and breakers in the panel are on so the minimal voltage is getting eaten up by the circuits...?



    ok....... standing down :- )
    Last edited by ritelec; 08-06-17 at 10:21 PM.
    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

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    Try another meter (test meter not POCO meter) and see what the readings are. Do you ever get 240V between L1 & L2?

    Either pull the meter if you're allowed to and check there first
    or
    Call POCO and have them pull it then YOU check inside the socket.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    Do you ever get 240V between L1 & L2?
    from original post..........
    "When you remove the breaker the terminal blades are hot"
    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

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