Under the sink... Wet location?

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mtfallsmikey

Senior Member
Seems like this was a recent discussion, but searched to no
a ail... Our tenant's safety folks saw this J- box next to the
open sight drain under the sink cabinet, said it fell under wet
location conditions, want it changed over to an FS box/cover,
Opinions?

image.jpg
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Our tenant's safety folks saw this J- box next to the
open sight drain under the sink cabinet, said it fell under wet
location conditions, want it changed over to an FS box/cover,
Opinions?


Sound like that's just their opinion. I wouldn't consider it a wet location.

Under normal operation there shouldn't be any leaks and if there is it's a plumbing problem.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
That is not a wet location-- there is no way that that area fits this definition in the NEC

Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.

It doesn't even fit the definition of damp location

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture.
Informational Note: Examples of such locations include
partially protected locations under canopies, marquees,
roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations
subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some
basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.
 

DeltaFarce

New User
Location
NJ
You don't believe that box could be "subject to moderate degrees of moisture" Dennis?

I spent a few weeks washing dishes at a local diner as a kid and remember that type of drain would splash sometimes and my pants and the tops of my sneakers would get wet.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
No I don't think it is subject to moderate degree of moisture. I have never had moisture under my sink except when a pipe broke. IMO, a broken pipe is not the concern because if it were then every light fixture in a ceiling where there is plumbing would be subject to the same situation
 

DeltaFarce

New User
Location
NJ
Dennis, have you looked closely at the picture? That type of drain is not what you have under your sink or in your ceiling.

That drain is completely open which causes splashing and also could allow the draining water to evaporate and condense on the cold metal electrical box.

A lot of times they put a screen into that type of drain to collect debris and that can also cause splashing.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Dennis, have you looked closely at the picture? That type of drain is not what you have under your sink or in your ceiling.

That drain is completely open which causes splashing and also could allow the draining water to evaporate and condense on the cold metal electrical box.

A lot of times they put a screen into that type of drain to collect debris and that can also cause splashing.

Well you are correct in that I did not look at the pic closely and I agree if there is splashing then perhaps changes should be made to the JB . Now if there is splashing I suspect the entire plumbing install is not compliant because they will have other problems greater than the jb getting wet
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I agree with Dennis' initial opinion, the photo notwithstanding. The sink above the box does not drain to the open pipe, but rather into a pipe that continues out of the back wall. The two pipes that would drain into the open pipe are most likely to serve an overflow function. Here again, they would not be dumping water frequently, and when they do it would be at atmospheric pressure. That would not cause large amounts of splashing that would put the space within the definition of "wet location."

If by chance the two pipes are dumping water at a high rate, so that there is splashing, then you have a plumbing problem, not an electrical problem. The pipes would need to be solidly connected to the drain, and there would have to be a drain trap installed on each of them.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........

If by chance the two pipes are dumping water at a high rate, so that there is splashing, then you have a plumbing problem, not an electrical problem. The pipes would need to be solidly connected to the drain, and there would have to be a drain trap installed on each of them.

Yeah,but, plumbers are so expensive....... And we can beat the electricians up and they'll fix it for nothing.......
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I agree with Dennis' initial opinion, the photo notwithstanding. The sink above the box does not drain to the open pipe, but rather into a pipe that continues out of the back wall. The two pipes that would drain into the open pipe are most likely to serve an overflow function. Here again, they would not be dumping water frequently, and when they do it would be at atmospheric pressure. That would not cause large amounts of splashing that would put the space within the definition of "wet location."

If by chance the two pipes are dumping water at a high rate, so that there is splashing, then you have a plumbing problem, not an electrical problem. The pipes would need to be solidly connected to the drain, and there would have to be a drain trap installed on each of them.
The pipe at the left already has an air gap higher up. Possibly it is just an automatic trap primer line.
The one on the right could be a drain from a unit such as a beverage gun with a drain. Probably not an overflow from the sink.
Some plumbing connections in commercial settings are required to have an open air gap of the sort shown. Even with its own trap, a closed connection would not be legal.
 

USMC1302

Senior Member
Location
NW Indiana
Doesn't look like any splashing has occurred as there appears to be no damage/water stains. Could be a condensate drain and looks like some kind of flow control on left. looks more like a plumbing code violation than electrical safety issue
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Wow....if they are going to call this a wet location (which it is not) then you might as well change that Type MC Cable as well.....as it is not supposed to be in a wet location either as shown...:angel:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Dennis, have you looked closely at the picture? That type of drain is not what you have under your sink or in your ceiling.

That drain is completely open which causes splashing and also could allow the draining water to evaporate and condense on the cold metal electrical box.

A lot of times they put a screen into that type of drain to collect debris and that can also cause splashing.

If it was a wet location there would be building code violations as well.

It is not a wet location.
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
I never said it was wet. I was asking Dennis' opinion on whether it would be "subject to moderate degrees of moisture".
Subjective......my bedroom was subject to such moderate degree of moisture when my son tipped over our 100 gallon fish tank........;) And just for argument sake even a dry location can be temporarily subject to wetness and dampness....like my bedroom.

Under that sink..as shown the box is higher than the drain...gravity will ensure that none of the splashing will get in that box....and if it ever does become a REAL wet location....then they have other more pressing things to worry about...in my opinion of course.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Doesn't look like any splashing has occurred as there appears to be no damage/water stains. Could be a condensate drain and looks like some kind of flow control on left. looks more like a plumbing code violation than electrical safety issue
I was thinking the same thing.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I never said it was wet. I was asking Dennis' opinion on whether it would be "subject to moderate degrees of moisture".

The thread is about it being a wet location or not.

In my opinion it is not.

If we say that location is "subject to moderate degrees of moisture" what are we going to call a typical bathroom?
 

norcal

Senior Member
From the looks of it that cabinet has a melamine finish, which means a particle board substrate, & we all know what happens when "wood products" like particle board or MDF get wet. As others have said, dry location.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The disposer is likely not rated for a wet location either, other then the interior portions that connect to the sink side inlet and drain pipe outlet.
 
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