Under cabinet kitchen lighting

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James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I really like l.e.d. ribbon. Very inexpensive....

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Q907EW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


Add power supply...

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DKSI0S8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00


The last one I did, I tried a diffuser channel and really liked the finished look...

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJSUZSK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00



One word of caution. Many people don't consider voltage drop because of the low wattage - 24 watts for a 16' roll. But at 12 volts, it doesn't take a lot of length to have drastic results.

I went to troubleshoot some ribbon in a kitchen earlier this year. 2 sections of ribbon, left and right of the stove. Left side was 2' long, right side 8' long. Transformer was in the lower cabinet to the left side of the stove.

An 18 gauge wire ran up to the short ribbon, then daisy-chained to the 8' ribbon. The long section was the furthest away, and it was considerably dimmer than the short section.

The voltage at that long section was a little over 11 volts, but 12 volts at the shortest section.


What I typically do is put the transformer under the sink, and run a separate feed to each section. I add the ribbon length to the wire length and get them close to the same. That might mean running wire to the farthest end of a short section, etc.


Also, I just had a warranty call Friday on some ribbon I used to back light an alcove sign. It was blinking and flickering erratically. This was wired back in February, and I had no options for transformer location except attic. The transformer had gone bad.

I'm wondering if the summer heat took a toll on it - ambient temperature plus transformer heat. I know heat has been an issue with various l.e.d. drivers, such as in corn bulbs, A-19 style, and others, when enclosed.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
Good information James.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Thanks, Edward.

probably ought to clarify what I meant with adding ribbon length to wire length and make them the same.

I count a complete section length as wire + ribbon, and try to get all the complete sections similar length
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
When I've installed LED ribbon lighting under cabinets I've always run the termination of the 12 V wires to a small J box under the cabinet. Then from the J box I run the wires up through the back of the cabinet very neatly up to a transformer on the top of the cabinet. Most of the time the kitchen is prewired to allow for duplex receptacles above the cabinets, but if they're not you may be able to fish wire down from the attic and put your 110 above the cabinet so you can hook up the transformer there instead of having to mess with it in the attic. Plus when one of the Transformers goes out it's easy to replace it from down below, and here in Texas that's a beautiful thing ?

I've also found that the rolls LED ribbon that have individual small LED lamps every couple of inches will reflect on shiny countertops such as granite, so on the countertop you will see a reflection of every single lamp. It looks better when you can find something that has a lens that evens the light out on the reflective surfaces. If you just have a regular countertop that's not reflective the lighting looks amazing with regular rolls of LED ribbon. Just make sure anything near the kitchen sink is rated for wet locations.


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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Just make sure anything near the kitchen sink is rated for wet locations.

Do you have a lot of clients that get pretty carried away with the water in their kitchens?

I install and see others all the time put dry location switches, receptacles, covers, etc. near the sink and there is never a problem, the UC lights are typically further yet from the sink, and if they are regularly getting this area wet, it probably isn't going to be good for the cabinets the lights are mounted on either.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
That diffuser is very nice - what's the best way to cut the lens if the app is <5'?

I snap the lens into the channel and cut the whole thing at one time.

I cut from the back side using my cordless circular saw.

But cut really slow. Otherwise you will have a splintered piece of plastic
 

teufelhounden91

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Do you have a lot of clients that get pretty carried away with the water in their kitchens?

I install and see others all the time put dry location switches, receptacles, covers, etc. near the sink and there is never a problem, the UC lights are typically further yet from the sink, and if they are regularly getting this area wet, it probably isn't going to be good for the cabinets the lights are mounted on either.

You're right kwired, however I have had LED strips within 18 inches of the sink and directly above the sink (no window so they kept cabinets going over the sink) and I'd personally rather just not chance it. Too much of a PITA to do all that work just to replace it. It's not that much more expensive to get rolls of ribbon that are coated to protect from water.

Another tip to remember is always plug your rolls in to the driver before installing them. I've had roles were every 10th lamp didn't work and that sucks having to uninstall it all, order new stuff, and come back to reinstall.


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JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I snap the lens into the channel and cut the whole thing at one time.

I cut from the back side using my cordless circular saw.

But cut really slow. Otherwise you will have a splintered piece of plastic

ty for the tips!


Another tip to remember is always plug your rolls in to the driver before installing them. I've had roles were every 10th lamp didn't work and that sucks having to uninstall it all, order new stuff, and come back to reinstall.

Another good tip. ty as well!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
You're right kwired, however I have had LED strips within 18 inches of the sink and directly above the sink (no window so they kept cabinets going over the sink) and I'd personally rather just not chance it. Too much of a PITA to do all that work just to replace it. It's not that much more expensive to get rolls of ribbon that are coated to protect from water.

Another tip to remember is always plug your rolls in to the driver before installing them. I've had roles were every 10th lamp didn't work and that sucks having to uninstall it all, order new stuff, and come back to reinstall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do as you wish, those lights are on a class 2 circuit so the hazard to the user is nearly nil, if your lights can't take the likely very rare splash of water once in a while you have a poorly designed product IMO, submersion or wash down is a different ballgame. Also as I mentioned if you are frequently getting this area wet - you will have deterioration of the cabinet (unless it is made of some material that can take this kind of abuse) the lights are mounted to.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Another tip to remember is always plug your rolls in to the driver before installing them.....
sucks having to uninstall it all, order new stuff, and come back to reinstall.


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100% for sure, plug the roll in before any installation.

I'm prone to having more on hand than I need, though. I order it online instead of Home Depot or lighting supply house, and save at least 85% on cost.

So I always order a full roll more than I need, and more transformers than I need. I just don't want to be tripping over dollars to pick up nickels.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
100% for sure, plug the roll in before any installation.

I'm prone to having more on hand than I need, though. I order it online instead of Home Depot or lighting supply house, and save at least 85% on cost.

So I always order a full roll more than I need, and more transformers than I need. I just don't want to be tripping over dollars to pick up nickels.

QFT. and yes, on line is much cheaper than big box or supply house. I found today that leaving the paper backing on until everything is ready to be mounted helps quite a bit, which is something not mentioned in the mfg suggestions, Also, LED UC cabinent lighting isnt blown/ruined by reversing polarity (but wont work if it is, on the DC side). 99% of the problems are in the connectors/leads.


And yes, LEDs WILL glare off of granite countertops (can see individual LEDs). Diffusers are a must.

Question: how far do you run your LED strips? e.g., if your countertop is 22", do you use 18", so that the lights are centered, as well as giving you working space at the connector? What do you use to connect the leads to your wire to the transformer? We have been using UR3 Scotchlocks to join the leads to the 18-22/2 wire to the transformer, but I think butt splices would be better. Thoughts?
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I found today that leaving the paper backing on until everything is ready to be mounted helps quite a bit......
Absolutely helps. I didn't think to mention that.


Question: how far do you run your LED strips? e.g., if your countertop is 22", do you use 18", so that the lights are centered, as well as giving you working space at the connector? What do you use to connect the leads to your wire to the transformer? We have been using UR3 Scotchlocks to join the leads to the 18-22/2 wire to the transformer, but I think butt splices would be better. Thoughts?

At the transformer, i use plug-ins with screw lugs....

This transformer has a 5.5mm plug on the load side:
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DKSI0S8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00


Then I use a splitter if more than 1 ribbon section:
http://smile.amazon.com/RGBSIGHT-5-...446009250&sr=1-4&keywords=Led+ribbon+5mm+jack


Then an adapter to set screw connection:
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...mm led plug&qid=1446009733&ref_=sr_1_9&sr=8-9


Under the cabinet, I use male/female bullet connectors. I use a cord mate in the corner of the cabinet to stick my connectors into:
http://smile.amazon.com/Wiremold-C5...TF8&qid=1446010341&sr=1-14&keywords=Cord+mate

I just dont snap it closed, in case I might ever need to work on it. And it's self sticking


As for placement, I install the ribbon 4" behind the face frame (roughly 7" away from wall). That way it lights the whole counter and backsplash evenly, without a hard shadow from face frame onto counter.

For length, I make it as long as possible with the 2" increments. 22" cabinet I would use 20" of ribbon. With the cord mate to house my connections, they're all behind the ribbon so I don't need to factor that into length
 
I like Kichler UCLs as they are line voltage fed and thus can be field replaced easily. Also great for upgrading existing florescent ucls. 3 year warranty and come in 1, 2, 3, and 4 light options. Light output looks great as well.

http://www.kichler.com/products/product/direct-wire-2lt-led-under-cabinet-bz-12056bz.aspx

Generally, I wouldn't sell tape as an under cab option unless there was no other alternative. Just my preference, as I really hate the look of a bazillion lights reflecting off of a granite counter top. Course, every job/customer is different and I love designing each job on it's own merit.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I really hate the look of a bazillion lights reflecting off of a granite counter top.

James linked a backing and lens/diffuser on page one. Adds a bit of cost to the job but nothing bad.

re: the transformer in the attic, wow, 6 or so months is short life. You gotta go where you can tho. We've done 3 or 4 now; most went in the crawlspace.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Before there was "tape strip" LED's a lot of high end homes often had Juno Trac 12 systems installed (and was not skimpy on cost) - you still had several lamps (spots) that reflected off granite or other reflective counters.
 
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