Disconnect within site

Status
Not open for further replies.

SAP

Senior Member
Location
Fresno Ca
On side of house It goes residential service,external AC disco,solaredge inverter,there is a wooden Fence with access gate between AC disco and inverter, I can see inverter from disco with gate closed (with-insight) .Disco with external handle can be locked in the on/off position,Inspecter wants me to move disco on the same side of fence in back yard to meet the requirements of de energizing equip before working on it, because of fence with access gate,I think it meets code just has it is,it would be appreciated if I can get some feed back with with nec references thank you
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
On side of house It goes residential service,external AC disco,solaredge inverter,there is a wooden Fence with access gate between AC disco and inverter, I can see inverter from disco with gate closed (with-insight) .Disco with external handle can be locked in the on/off position,Inspecter wants me to move disco on the same side of fence in back yard to meet the requirements of de energizing equip before working on it, because of fence with access gate,I think it meets code just has it is,it would be appreciated if I can get some feed back with with nec references thank you

Is the access gate locked or lockable? Maybe that's his beef?
 

SAP

Senior Member
Location
Fresno Ca
Its a regular lockable wood gate, I would think I won't be able to service equipment unless homeowner opens gate so I can get to inverter thanks
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
The NEC says the disco shall be 'grouped' with the inverter. That's open to interpretation but if you have a barrier (fence) in between then I don't think you have a good argument that they are 'grouped'. If that's the way he wants to interpret I don't know what code rule you can reference to argue another way.

"line of sight' is not an electrical code rule for inverter disconnects. Not sure where people get that, maybe some utilities have that rule.

690.15 in the 2011 NEC / 2013 California Electrical Code.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
"line of sight' is not an electrical code rule for inverter disconnects. Not sure where people get that, maybe some utilities have that rule.
690.15(A) in the 2014 NEC says AC and DC discos must be mounted "within sight of or in" inverters in not readily accessible locations. Maybe that's where it came from.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
690.15(A) in the 2014 NEC says AC and DC discos must be mounted "within sight of or in" inverters in not readily accessible locations. Maybe that's where it came from.

Did you read 690.15)A)(3)? does require an additional ac disco per 690.13(A). & if you are implying the inverter is not readily accessible to apply 690.13(A) then the ac disconnect by the inverter is not readily accessible. A locked/lockable (we have no control of what the owner does) fence could render the inverter as not readily accessible
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to actions such as to use tools, to climb over or remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.
There could even be an arguement for accessible-
Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Did you read 690.15)A)(3)? does require an additional ac disco per 690.13(A). & if you are implying the inverter is not readily accessible to apply 690.13(A) then the ac disconnect by the inverter is not readily accessible. A locked/lockable (we have no control of what the owner does) fence could render the inverter as not readily accessible
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to actions such as to use tools, to climb over or remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.
There could even be an arguement for accessible-
Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.
In the first place, I am not implying anything. I simply quoted language from the NEC as a possible explanation for where the "line of sight" idea in an earlier post may have come from.

If you have an inverter in a not readily accessible area, such as on a rooftop, then you must have an AC disco up there within sight of or in the inverter, whatever that specifically means, per 690.15 (A)(3). 690.13(A) says that in that case you must have another disconnecting means in a readily accessible location. Could you have an inverter on the roof but visible from the service and be able to get away with installing a single disco? I dunno; maybe.

Whether the inverter in question which is (I gather) at ground level behind a wooden fence is considered to be "readily accessible" is another question.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
In the first place, I am not implying anything. I simply quoted language from the NEC as a possible explanation for where the "line of sight" idea in an earlier post may have come from.

If you have an inverter in a not readily accessible area, such as on a rooftop, then you must have an AC disco up there within sight of or in the inverter, whatever that specifically means, per 690.15 (A)(3). 690.13(A) says that in that case you must have another disconnecting means in a readily accessible location. Could you have an inverter on the roof but visible from the service and be able to get away with installing a single disco? I dunno; maybe.

Whether the inverter in question which is (I gather) at ground level behind a wooden fence is considered to be "readily accessible" is another question.

Gotcha -- Should have quoted SAP
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
An interesting state of affairs.

Readily Accessible allows for locked doors while just Accessible does not. :angel:

Or else it depends on context, i.e. whether Accessible is a good thing or a bad thing in a particular rule.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Readily Accessible allows for locked doors while just Accessible does not. :angel:

Was just told today by an AHJ that locked doors means it's not Readily Accessible. Decided not to argue.

ggunn, thanks for the reminder on 'within sight'. Never thought that a disco on the ground that's 'within sight' could count for an inverter on the roof. :lol:
 

SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
See Article 100 definition of "In Sight From (Whithin Sight From, Within Sight)"

Where this Code specifies that one equipment shall be “in sight from,” “within sight from,” or “within sight of,” and so forth, another equipment, the specified equipment is to be visible and not more than 15 m (50 ft) distant from the other.
 

SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
Was just told today by an AHJ that locked doors means it's not Readily Accessible. Decided not to argue.

ggunn, thanks for the reminder on 'within sight'. Never thought that a disco on the ground that's 'within sight' could count for an inverter on the roof. :lol:

Well, what about an inverter mounted 12 feet up a column supporting a carport? Maybe there's not room alongside it for maintenance discos? Seems like that where "within sight" comes into play. All else being equal, put the discos where they are readily accessible from the serviceable equipment. But the built environment is complex and may not always accommodate this.
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Was just told today by an AHJ that locked doors means it's not Readily Accessible. Decided not to argue.[
/QUOTE]


Yes a key technically is a tool. However, in NEC 2014, there is a statement that specifically allows equipment to be locked by keys or behind doors locked with keys, for it to still be "readily accessible" to qualified personnel.

If you are referring to 110.27 I would not buy that arguement -- to accept it in this situation would open the doors to accept it in any circumstance or situation. no pun intended
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
440.14 starts off with: "Disconnecting means shall be located within sight from and readily accessible from the Air-conditioning or refrigerating equipment."

So for that application you need to have ready access to the disconnect while at the air conditioning equipment. One example is if AC equipment is on a roof the disconnect can not be on grade level even if it otherwise meets "within sight" requirements.

I am not seeing similar wording in 690.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top