Fire Pump and Meter

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NEC User

Senior Member
Can I connect a fire pump directly to the load side of the utility transformer (which is prior to the meter which is located within an adjacent current transformer cabinet). Thus far, utility company PSE&G hasn't raised any objection. Has anyone seen this done before?

The utility inspector said that I need to check with the town. The town (and myself) agree it's a utility issue.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Check out 695.3

695.3 Power Source(s) for Electric Motor-Driven Fire
Pumps. Electric motor-driven fire pumps shall have a reliable source of power.
(1) Electric Utility Service Connection. A fire pump shall
be permitted to be supplied by a separate service, or from a
connection located ahead of and not within the same cabinet, enclosure, vertical switchgear section, or verticalswitchboard section as the service disconnecting means.The connection shall be located and arranged so as to minimize the possibility of damage by fire from within the premises and from exposing hazards. A tap ahead of the service disconnecting means shall comply with 230.82(5). Theservice equipment shall comply with the labeling requirements in 230.2 and the location requirements in 230.72(B).

Chris
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Locally, POCOs have never allowed a FP to be connected without metering of some type.
 

Tony S

Senior Member
Locally, POCOs have never allowed a FP to be connected without metering of some type.

This isn’t a dig at anyone before some people start.

I’m really surprised at that. What happens if you don’t pay your electricity bill?
It would be like the water company charging the fire department for water used. Tough luck if it’s the water companies offices on fire.

(I hate to admit this but UK water companies tried to impose a standing charge for each fire hydrant in a district. They didn’t get it.)

A switchboard at a paper mill, the incoming DNO (PoCo) ACB and metering are isolated but the red fire pump feeds are still live.

6_zpslhtve2ug.jpg
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
In my area fire pumps are commonly ahead of metering but that won't make a difference as the power company will open the primary feeding the transformer serving the building for non-payment.

Keep in mind the US is fairly large and has countless power companies all with different procedures.
 

Tony S

Senior Member
Strange how you stepped in.

I have numerous policy documents from UK power companies, non of them agree with each other.

All my life I’ve worked for multinational companies, there’s no wonder I was confused at times.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
...
I’m really surprised at that. What happens if you don’t pay your electricity bill?
All of the fire pumps around here are on the load side of the metering equipment, and yes, non-payment = no power to run anything including the fire pump. There is also typically a water meter on the line that supplies water to the fire pump.
It would be like the water company charging the fire department for water used. Tough luck if it’s the water companies offices on fire.
Around here the fire department does pay the water department. There is a line item in the fire department budget to pay the water department for providing and maintaining fire hydrants. In our town it is around $100 per hydrant per year.
 

Tony S

Senior Member
All of the fire pumps around here are on the load side of the metering equipment, and yes, non-payment = no power to run anything including the fire pump. There is also typically a water meter on the line that supplies water to the fire pump.

Around here the fire department does pay the water department. There is a line item in the fire department budget to pay the water department for providing and maintaining fire hydrants. In our town it is around $100 per hydrant per year.

That is an ongoing argument here, different countries different laws, same result.

Private profit comes before public safety.
 

Tony S

Senior Member
The operative word being “sometimes”.

The UK supply system was “nationalised”
Previously municipal power and gas companies supplied whatever they felt like. Even large employers provided power to local villages.
Mrs Brown borrows Mrs Green’s flat iron from across the street and it explodes. One side of the street belonged to the colliery the other the iron founders.

It would be a good thread to start.
Our industry doesn’t have a long history but its lurched from side to side in that short time.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Can I connect a fire pump directly to the load side of the utility transformer (which is prior to the meter which is located within an adjacent current transformer cabinet). Thus far, utility company PSE&G hasn't raised any objection. Has anyone seen this done before?

The utility inspector said that I need to check with the town. The town (and myself) agree it's a utility issue.

It is a utility issue. That utility could even be a gas company if the fire pump were powered by NG. Utility issue may be further regulated then just NFPA documents though. As mentioned some places may have regulations that would still require power to the fire pump even if regular service has been disconnected. I doubt it is that way in many places though. Has also been said if POCO is going to remove power from a facility that is on fire they likely pull primary fuses and lose fire pump as well. But I also think that if fire pump/sprinkler system was effective it seldom gets to the point where they are going to disconnect power to the facility. If it does get to that point, there is no salvaging the facility anymore it is just keep it from spreading to other facilities.
 
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