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1. Originally Posted by Carultch
Because V1-to-N is a sine wave, and V2-to-N is a sine wave.
But out of phase so they can't be the same phase. Ergo, you have more than one phase.

2. Originally Posted by Carultch
Because V1-to-N is a sine wave, and V2-to-N is a sine wave.
Therein lies the crux of the debate. I would say it as "V1-to-N" and "N-to-V2" instead. You're "artificially creating the inversion" when you keep one theoretical probe on the neutral while moving the other theoretical probe to both, or opposite, sides of it.

The essential difference between the voltage functions, can be seen as a shift in time. A shift in time between periodic functions, is called a phase shift. That's why one might see it as two phases, even though it is instead generated by mirroring the first sine wave around the V=0 axis, instead of shifting it by 180 degrees along the time axis.
Meaning that, for this one instance, what is a polarity phenomenon merely resembles a phase shift

3. Originally Posted by Besoeker
But out of phase so they can't be the same phase. Ergo, you have more than one phase.
But, they're not out of phase. They couldn't possibly come from a single transformer if they were. Every winding on a single transformer core is in phase with all of the others.

Like batteries, you must get the polarity correct when combining them. That it's AC doesn't change this, since they all swap polarity in sync twice per cycle; instantaneous polarity.

The same reason a universal motor works on AC or DC.

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Originally Posted by LarryFine
Therein lies the crux of the debate.
This isn't a debate, it's a silly argument that will not change anyone's mind. Pass the popcorn.

5. Originally Posted by LarryFine
But, they're not out of phase.
They are 180 deg out of phase.
Call it anything you want but it doesn't negate that point.

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Originally Posted by Besoeker
They are 180 deg out of phase.
For a pure sine wave. Add any even harmonic, and they are no longer 180 degrees out of phase. But they would still be negatives of each other.

Cheers, Wayne

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Originally Posted by ggunn
This isn't a debate, it's a silly argument that will not change anyone's mind. Pass the popcorn.
What is on your mind? Popcorn?

8. Originally Posted by wwhitney
For a pure sine wave. Add any even harmonic, and they are no longer 180 degrees out of phase. But they would still be negatives of each other.
Because they are 180 degrees out of phase.

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Originally Posted by LarryFine
But, they're not out of phase. They couldn't possibly come from a single transformer if they were. Every winding on a single transformer core is in phase with all of the others.

Like batteries, you must get the polarity correct when combining them. That it's AC doesn't change this, since they all swap polarity in sync twice per cycle; instantaneous polarity.

The same reason a universal motor works on AC or DC.
under this thought, you cannot create a three phase power supply from a single phase...
The windings of the core is what creates the phases... the sine waves are proof of the phases. I mean, I may not understand all the math you guys are quoting... Even for AM/FM Phase shifting radio theory I did not get into some of these calculations, but I know that proper windings on a transformer can create phasing that is of various shift patterns form the original phase. This is how some of the transposing ciphers were created in the later part of WW2 and are used in military communications in some parts of the world even now.
The standard transformers form three phase to single phase, or even the so called Center Tap transformer are all used to create phases.

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