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1. Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Besoeker
Because they are 180 degrees out of phase.
A transformer that creates a balanced audio signal from an unbalanced one works exactly the same way as a transformer that creates 120V - 0V - 120V from a single phase of power. Its output is the signal and the inverted signal, and they are colloquially called "180 degrees out of phase" but they aren't because every frequency is inverted. No amount of phase shift can do that.

But I said that nearly 1200 posts ago, didn't I?

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Originally Posted by Besoeker
Because they are 180 degrees out of phase.
No.

Suppose due to harmonics the L1-N voltage is of the form sin(x) + a*sin(2x) [for some constant a and where I've set other constants to 1 for simplicity]. What's the L2-N voltage for an idealized center-tapped transformer secondary:

1) sin(x + pi) + a*sin(2(x + pi)).
2) - sin(x) - a*sin(2x)

In this case the two answers differ. And (2) is correct, (1) is incorrect.

Cheers, Wayne

3. Originally Posted by wwhitney
No.

Suppose due to harmonics the L1-N voltage is of the form sin(x) + a*sin(2x) [for some constant a and where I've set other constants to 1 for simplicity]. What's the L2-N voltage for an idealized center-tapped transformer secondary:

1) sin(x + pi) + a*sin(2(x + pi)).
2) - sin(x) - a*sin(2x)

In this case the two answers differ. And (2) is correct, (1) is incorrect.

Cheers, Wayne
You made my case. Very eloquently.

4. Senior Member
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Originally Posted by ggunn
A transformer that creates a balanced audio signal from an unbalanced one works exactly the same way as a transformer that creates 120V - 0V - 120V from a single phase of power. Its output is the signal and the inverted signal, and they are colloquially called "180 degrees out of phase" but they aren't because every frequency is inverted. No amount of phase shift can do that.

But I said that nearly 1200 posts ago, didn't I?
I don't know, seems to me that 1149 is a few short of 'nearly 1200'. Stop exaggerating.

You also said it (or made closely related points) in posts 45, 258, 268, 336, 439, 504, ... I'm sure there were a couple more. Sorry I got bored of searching.

5. Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Besoeker
You made my case. Very eloquently.
He debunked your case, very eloquently.
Just going for post count now?

6. Senior Member
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Am I the only one who looks at the title of this thread and thinks...”Wouldn’t it have been best to simply answer NO!”?

7. Originally Posted by jaggedben
He debunked your case, very eloquently.
Just going for post count now?
Are they 180 degrees apart?
That's just yes or no.

8. Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Besoeker
Are they 180 degrees apart?
That's just yes or no.
NO.

And (2) is correct, (1) is incorrect.

9. Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Besoeker
Are they 180 degrees apart?
That's just yes or no.
Yes. Two phases (with respect to time) in a single phase(with respect to function) system. GLAD I AM ABLE TO COMBINE TWO CONTRADICTORY COCEPTS INTO ONE! That is dialectics of development.

10. Originally Posted by Sahib
Yes. Two phases (with respect to time) in a single phase(with respect to function) system.
It only resembles an offset in time; it's an opposition in instantaneous polarity.

If you were to change the frequency but maintain what you perceive as the "timing offset" between the two waves, the opposing peaks would no longer occur at the same time.

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