Arc faults will not trip

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Jmender

Member
Location
Cincinnati, ohio
I have a large residential project that I recently ran into an issue on.
I cannot get the arc faults to trip when shorting neutral to ground.
They test fine when using test button.
All grounding and bonding is correct.
it seems like a good problem to have, but I know something is wrong.
Ideas anyone?
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
What brand are they? If it's a GE or Cutler Hammer BR, they have removed the 30 mA GFPE portion of the breaker which caused tripping from N-G shorts. That would explain why it did not trip.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
I guess i'll have to do some field testing to see which are so , but i can't understand why they'd remove the only viable function Don

~RJ~
 

Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
Arcfaults will not trip (Mine trip all the time !) help

Arcfaults will not trip (Mine trip all the time !) help

Hi, brand new panel, new Seimens AFCI 20 amp breakers trip often when the trim contractor is using his miter saw ! Help ! I'm still kind of new to AFCI, as my home state doesn't require them. Thank you (nameplate on miter saw is 15 amp) Two different contractors saws trip.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Hi, brand new panel, new Seimens AFCI 20 amp breakers trip often when the trim contractor is using his miter saw ! Help ! I'm still kind of new to AFCI, as my home state doesn't require them. Thank you (nameplate on miter saw is 15 amp) Two different contractors saws trip.

Take out AFCI
Install regular breaker
Let carpenters/workers finish
Put AFCI back in
Get inspection














Take AFCI back out & put regular breaker back:angel:
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Hi, brand new panel, new Seimens AFCI 20 amp breakers trip often when the trim contractor is using his miter saw ! Help ! I'm still kind of new to AFCI, as my home state doesn't require them. Thank you (nameplate on miter saw is 15 amp) Two different contractors saws trip.
Welcome to the world of AFCIs.

Have them use a GFCI only protected outlet while you make sure there are no faults with the AFCI circuits. Neutrals must go to the AFCI they are associated with. No shared neutrals.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Hi, brand new panel, new Seimens AFCI 20 amp breakers trip often when the trim contractor is using his miter saw ! Help ! I'm still kind of new to AFCI, as my home state doesn't require them. Thank you (nameplate on miter saw is 15 amp) Two different contractors saws trip.

Take out AFCI
Install regular breaker
Let carpenters/workers finish
Put AFCI back in
Get inspection

Take AFCI back out & put regular breaker back:angel:

Welcome to the world of AFCIs.

Have them use a GFCI only protected outlet while you make sure there are no faults with the AFCI circuits. Neutrals must go to the AFCI they are associated with. No shared neutrals.
You guys obviously are not up to speed with the latest NEMA take on AFCI breakers. You don't know what you are doing and whatever it is that you are doing is wrong. Check out this quote from the other active AFCI thread...
All electrical equipment and any cord-and-plug connected appliance that is listed to a U.S. based electrical product standard (typically UL, but many CSA & IEC standards as well) will NOT trip an AFCI if it is operating under the normal parameters outlined in it's applicable standard. Period. If the branch circuit wiring is completely free of defects, damage, and unintentional mis-wiring, an AFCI will not produce and unwanted trip. Period. If the AFCI device is operating and functioning within the parameters outline in UL 1569, it will not produce an unwanted trip when connected to a code compliant and defect free branch-circuit supplying electrical equipment. Period.

There is less than a 1% chance that a listed AFCI device is defective and not operating properly. This is based on batch testing, NRTL field reports, & data from the CPSC. So, there is likely a 99% change that what is being described as an unwanted or nuisance trip is more likely an AFCI device responding, properly, to a defective appliance or an unintentional mis-wire of the branch-circuit.

Much like GFCIs in the recent past, AFCIs are exposing the lack of workmanship and qualified electricians we have in our industry. They are also exposing the manufacturers of appliances and equipment that are not in compliance with their product standards. And, they are exposing the counterfeit and unlisted products that are flooding the market.

As soon as these three problems are corrected, the issue of unwanted AFCI tripping goes away. NEMA has strategic initiatives currently in place to combat these three issues. In the meanwhile, more needs to be done to educate the installers and users about these issues so they know how to respond properly to AFCI tripping. This too is a major focus of NEMA activities, related to AFCIs.

The hyper-focus and obsession with the AFCI device itself has no merit. Our efforts need to be on workmanship, appliance standards, and preventing unlisted and counterfeit products. Period.
 
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