Number of outlets

Status
Not open for further replies.

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Why is there no NEC standard for the number of outlets allowed on a branch circuit?
Because there is no reason for one, it's totally a design issue.

The state of New Mexico has a local amendment restricting the number of recpts on a circuit and it is stupid. You end up with a dozen or more circuits loaded up to a whopping two amps or less on each of them.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
180va is commercial. I like to remind folks that for residential, they are "convenience" outlets.
If your bedroom has 12 outlets or 6 the chances are the load would be exactly the same. You are most likely to plug and use simultaneously the same number of items in a given square ft area no matter the number of receptacles available. The more you have the easier they are to access.
 

TobyD

Senior Member
I work often in Linclon Co. Tn. We had a meeting there a few years ago and I was under the impression that the State Of Tn. has an amendment to count each outlet inside a dwelling as 180va.(one inspector was counting light bulbs )I still have the paper work somewhere. I too think it's overkill to have convenience outlets counted that way.I went through the Tom Henry course years ago and I recall Mr.Henry using the example of the convenience outlets..His illustration was a example of common sense...
 

sparks1

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
180va is commercial. I like to remind folks that for residential, they are "convenience" outlets.
If your bedroom has 12 outlets or 6 the chances are the load would be exactly the same. You are most likely to plug and use simultaneously the same number of items in a given square ft area no matter the number of receptacles available. The more you have the easier they are to access.

Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I work often in Linclon Co. Tn. We had a meeting there a few years ago and I was under the impression that the State Of Tn. has an amendment to count each outlet inside a dwelling as 180va.(one inspector was counting light bulbs )I still have the paper work somewhere. I too think it's overkill to have convenience outlets counted that way.I went through the Tom Henry course years ago and I recall Mr.Henry using the example of the convenience outlets..His illustration was a example of common sense...

The State of TN amended the NEC to limit the number of outlets (note: that's outlets, not just receptacle outlets) on AFCI circuits (also note TN only requires AFCI on bedroom circuits).
The intent was to put a stop to the practice some contractors had on connecting 4 and 5 bedrooms to one AFCI due to the cost factor.

Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!

My suggestion would be that you document that and submit it for a Code change.
 

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
When I wire residences, I usually stick to 10 (maybe 12) openings per (15A) circuit. Personal preference.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!

None of that is really happening, you are really reaching to find a reason.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
That is something that shouldn't even be in the code. Except for some very specific equipment everything out there can tolerate 10% voltage drop with no performance problems or safety concerns.
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!
I submit the hundreds of millions of homes in the US not catching fire as evidence to the contrary that there is a problem. This part of the NEC as it exists is fine.
 

luckylerado

Senior Member
Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!

This is nonsense
 

sparks1

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
The State of TN amended the NEC to limit the number of outlets (note: that's outlets, not just receptacle outlets) on AFCI circuits (also note TN only requires AFCI on bedroom circuits).
The intent was to put a stop to the practice some contractors had on connecting 4 and 5 bedrooms to one AFCI due to the cost factor.



My suggestion would be that you document that and submit it for a Code change.
Ok I will submit one .
Can you send a link for the form to fill out and also related to this question
I needed to to know if the resistance value given in table 8 are the current standards for resistance of wire
Example # 14 is 3.19 ohms per k/ft so that I can make some calculation in order to submit the changes for this design proposal
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Ok I will submit one .
Can you send a link for the form to fill out and also related to this question
I needed to to know if the resistance value given in table 8 are the current standards for resistance of wire
Example # 14 is 3.19 ohms per k/ft so that I can make some calculation in order to submit the changes for this design proposal
Look at the back of your code book.

Roger
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
None of that is really happening, you are really reaching to find a reason.

That is something that shouldn't even be in the code. Except for some very specific equipment everything out there can tolerate 10% voltage drop with no performance problems or safety concerns.

I submit the hundreds of millions of homes in the US not catching fire as evidence to the contrary that there is a problem. This part of the NEC as it exists is fine.

This is nonsense

I agree with all of you. :)

Roger
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Ok the problem lies with adding more resistance for every outlet that you may add . More resistance more vd
Get over a 0.5 ohm now you start to exceed the 3% recommended by the code
The bigger problem is the available fault current drops way down Read over an 1 ohm
The slows clearing time for the breaker causing wires to heat up and possibly melt , cause damage , or a fire The NEC needs to address this problem..We are way behind the rest other nations when it come to this problem a big design problem!

Countless billions of trouble free branch circuits in the U.S. prove your statement to be ridiculous.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Ok I will submit one .
Can you send a link for the form to fill out and also related to this question
I needed to to know if the resistance value given in table 8 are the current standards for resistance of wire
Example # 14 is 3.19 ohms per k/ft so that I can make some calculation in order to submit the changes for this design proposal
I don't think the process is open for public inputs to change the 2017 code. The final process to complete the 2017 code is in progress now.

Proposals for the 2017 code will be due no later than 5pm on November 3, 2017.

You will be able to find the information you need to submit a public input here when the submission system is opened for changes to the 2017 code.
For the 2017 code cycle they still accepted paper submissions, but with an much earlier closing date. The NFPA strongly prefers the process be completed online.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top