Bank Drive thru

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dema

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
The situation is a bank with a detached drive through.

225.30 states that where there is more than one building or structure, that each structure must have a separate disconnect.

In your opinion does 225.32 exception 1 apply to this situation? Or should we have the panel on the structure? If the panel is on the structure, we have various issues including lighting control, the need to run various communication circuits further and so forth. (The structure is not manned and the on/off lights currently are controlled by a relay panel inside the building next to the panelboard controlling all these circuits.)

Additionally, would having all the circuits on a panelboard that has other loads be allowed? Disconnecting one breaker disconnects all the circuits feeding that structure.

As far as safety goes, I don't see that the situation is different for a drive-thru that is across the driveway than for one that is attached to the building - but of course the letter of the law must be followed.

Previous practice by other design firms has been to just run the circuits separately as though the structure was attached.

Thank you for your thoughts.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
The situation is a bank with a detached drive through.

225.30 states that where there is more than one building or structure, that each structure must have a separate disconnect.

In your opinion does 225.32 exception 1 apply to this situation? Or should we have the panel on the structure? If the panel is on the structure, we have various issues including lighting control, the need to run various communication circuits further and so forth. (The structure is not manned and the on/off lights currently are controlled by a relay panel inside the building next to the panelboard controlling all these circuits.)

Additionally, would having all the circuits on a panelboard that has other loads be allowed? Disconnecting one breaker disconnects all the circuits feeding that structure.

As far as safety goes, I don't see that the situation is different for a drive-thru that is across the driveway than for one that is attached to the building - but of course the letter of the law must be followed.

Previous practice by other design firms has been to just run the circuits separately as though the structure was attached.

Thank you for your thoughts.

A building is a walled & roofed structure ...
A structure is that which is constructed or built.
Every building is a structure but not every structure is a building.

A home is a building. The mailbox on a post at the street is a structure. The lamp post in the yard is a structure.

That being said, we don't do a separate disco for every light pole in a parking lot. (a light pole is a structure).

I don't have the article in front of me. Are you sure it says "structure" and not just "building"?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Use 225.30(E) and 225.32 Exception 1.
Around here those exceptions are only permitted to be used where the facility has full time electricians working at the site, so if you want to try that, you need to get the AHJs approval first.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
A building is a walled & roofed structure ...
A structure is that which is constructed or built.
Every building is a structure but not every structure is a building.

A home is a building. The mailbox on a post at the street is a structure. The lamp post in the yard is a structure.

That being said, we don't do a separate disco for every light pole in a parking lot. (a light pole is a structure).

I don't have the article in front of me. Are you sure it says "structure" and not just "building"?

There is an exception for light poles.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
If you where a person with a need to shut down those circuits how would you know where to look and how many circuits there are?

I suggest a feeder with a panel at the structure.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
How many things on the drive-thru "structure" require power? Can they all be fed from a single circuit, perhaps a MWBC? I am wondering why there is talk of a separate panel on that structure.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Light poles often are on individual circuit or a multiwire circuit anyway, so exception specifically for light poles isn't really needed most of the time.

If this is a banking facility but not manned - is likely an ATM, other loads may be lighting or signs, but unless they are all on one MWBC you may need a panel at that structure. If lights or signs are actually separate structures - then run individual circuits to each of them and you are ok.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Light poles often are on individual circuit or a multiwire circuit anyway, so exception specifically for light poles isn't really needed most of the time.

Single circuits to seperate structures are required to have disconnecting means.

I think you maybe confusing that requirement for the GES requirement.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Single circuits to seperate structures are required to have disconnecting means.

I think you maybe confusing that requirement for the GES requirement.

Wasn't thinking GES, but yes a disconnect is still needed. I let the light pole application confuse me which doesn't require a disconnect.
 
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