User Tag List

Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Nongrounding receptacle replacement NEC vs. IEBC

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Nongrounding receptacle replacement NEC vs. IEBC

    To replace a non-grounding type receptacle, the International Existing Building Code, says (if no equipment grounding conductor) "....shall be permitted to be grounded to any accessible point on the grounding electrode system....".
    This is not one of the options listed in NEC Article 406.

    1. A viable option if your state uses the IEBC?

    2. Is a metal box and armored cable part of the grounding electrode system?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    34,272
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Look at 250.130(C)

    No to question #2
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    34,272
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    250.130(C)

    (C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit
    Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a
    grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall
    be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
    (1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system
    as described in 250.50
    (2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
    (3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure
    where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
    branch circuit originates
    (4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of
    another branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
    where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
    circuit originates
    (5) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
    within the service equipment enclosure
    (6) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar
    within the service equipment enclosure
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Jamaica and london
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following: (1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50 (2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor (3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates (4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of another branch circuit that originates from the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates (5) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure (6) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure Informational Note: See 406.4(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit-interrupting type of receptacle.

    Right from reading the 460 articles on circuits.. which falls right into the IEBC codes...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    34,272
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I hear an echo...
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Jamaica and london
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    think we were both answering at same time..lol... took me a few minutes to find it and double check it...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the replies.
    I was not aware of 250.130(C).

    Practically speaking - typically when a non-grounding receptacle is replaced, it is in an older house or similar situation where it is not convenient to run a ground wire anywhere.
    so:
    1. Is there a easy way to make this ground connection that is not occurring to me?
    2. Do you usually just use one of the methods in 406.4(D)?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    7,059
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by olc View Post
    Thanks for the replies.
    I was not aware of 250.130(C).
    To me, the most versatile part of 250.130(C) is 250.130(C)(4) which permits using a local Equipment Grounding Conductor. In that case, your OP question #2 comes back into play if the metal box and armored cable are connected as an equipment grounding conductor or a grounding means.

    Quote Originally Posted by olc View Post
    Practically speaking - typically when a non-grounding receptacle is replaced, it is in an older house or similar situation where it is not convenient to run a ground wire anywhere.
    so:
    1. Is there a easy way to make this ground connection that is not occurring to me?
    I humbly suggest, Yes, and that is to NOT add the ground connection as per 406.4(D)(2).

    Quote Originally Posted by olc View Post
    2. Do you usually just use one of the methods in 406.4(D)?
    NO. And that is because I generally have to use More Than One of the parts of 406.4 as per the second sentence of the rule:
    2017 NEC
    406.4 General Installation Requirements.
    . . . . General installation requirements shall be in accordance with 406.4(A) through (F).
    Satisfying a requirement of part of 406.4(D) ("one of the methods") does not relieve me from all the rest of 406.4 if it applies to the situation of a specific installation.

    So, practically speaking, when working under the 406.4 as written in the 2014 and 2017 NEC, today, in your OP scenario, the most efficient solution is to thread together 406.4(D)(4) with 406.4(D)(5) and 406.4(D)(2)(b) when using a single device that is a GFCI / AFCI Outlet Branch Circuit receptacle device that includes Tamper Resistance. This device is available from several manufacturers and is tested and evaluated to work without a connection to an EGC. In many existing installations, the nongrounding type receptacle replacement will be a direct swap out with no collateral damage, and will take a short fraction of an hour.
    Another Al in Minnesota

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •