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Thread: Some questions for the Canadian guys

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    In Canada the main breaker is isolated from the rest of the panel so entering the panel with branch circuits or feeders is not possible from the top of the panel. Hence the sideways setup.

    I don't think I could do horizontal installation of panel. Its just not right. Keep the panel vertical & put the MAIN on the bottom side if I had to work in Canada.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    In Canada the main breaker is isolated from the rest of the panel so entering the panel with branch circuits or feeders is not possible from the top of the panel. Hence the sideways setup.
    Then we would run into 240.81.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Then we would run into 240.81.
    Good catch, larry. Ive never paid too much attention to that paragraph. And can't recall it ever coming up in any inspections.

    For any canadians reading this 240.81 says "where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotionally or horizontally, the "up" position of the handle shall be the "on" position.


    Materials question... what is the voltage rating of the conductors used for 600/347 systems? Are you using conductors rated for up to 600 volts? Or do you max out that rating?



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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrMann View Post
    Good catch, larry. Ive never paid too much attention to that paragraph. And can't recall it ever coming up in any inspections.

    For any canadians reading this 240.81 says "where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotionally or horizontally, the "up" position of the handle shall be the "on" position.


    Materials question... what is the voltage rating of the conductors used for 600/347 systems? Are you using conductors rated for up to 600 volts? Or do you max out that rating?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    so that may be why the multiple bus panels in Europe look the way they do..so all the breakers are on in an upward position... but think there is some other part of USA code that stops us from using European Three and four row panels in NEC areas... something about multiple bus systems... I have wired as many as six separate bus groups in a panel over here... even with two phase to them once..lol... since we started using the split bus systems with an RCD to a group of like five breakers...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  5. #15
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    600/347 is very common. Lighting and heat are 347, motors, elevators are 600.

    new builds tend to stay with 208/120 for lighting due to the lower demand of led’s

    Sideways panels are due to our service conductors having to be separated. Ressi panels that have a main breaker come with a barrier separating the service conductor section from the rest of the panel. We can not run any wiring in the service conductor area so mounting a panel sideways is common when we replace old fuse panels that had wires exiting the top of the panel. Otherwise we would have to junction and extend the circuits so they enter the side or bottom.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrMann View Post
    Good catch, larry. Ive never paid too much attention to that paragraph. And can't recall it ever coming up in any inspections.

    For any canadians reading this 240.81 says "where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotionally or horizontally, the "up" position of the handle shall be the "on" position.


    Materials question... what is the voltage rating of the conductors used for 600/347 systems? Are you using conductors rated for up to 600 volts? Or do you max out that rating?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    Maybe there is more to that code, but I read it as IF they are mounted vertically, not that they must be. Isn’t there another code in the NEC about gravity not turning on a breaker? I thought that was why you guys can not mount a panel sideways.

    As for conductors we do have 1000 volt rated wire and our romex is only rated for 300 volts so people can’t use it on 347/600.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Then we would run into 240.81.
    Which I am sure is not in the CEC
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Figured I'd start off the new forum section with a few questions for our neighbors to the north:

    1) for those familiar with the Canadian electrical code and the NEC, how similar are they, what major differences have you noted?

    2) do you guys have 480 / 277 like us, or is it all 600 / 347v? I have read that both have similar arc flash potentials, the higher voltage seems desirable as, all other things being equal, one would have 25% more current capacity for the same size wiring. Thoughts and comments?
    1) They are very close but there are differences. Here is a few of the top of my head.
    -Like we have a 12 outlet max on any circuit. If the load is known, like with lighting, then we can exceed that limit.
    -A few differences with Arc fault but we are catching up with the NEC on that.
    -We don’t have to GFI garage circuits.

    2) Yes we have 480/277 but it is not supplied to us by the utility. We transform to that voltage to supply US equipment. For instance I have done it at an airport in the helicopter mechanics garage for some equipment and at a place that made and cut granite countertops. We just use the same 600 volt panels and just label them 480/277

  9. #19
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    Another difference is we don’t have to use 2 or 3 pole breakers for multiwire circuits unless the circuits are all for the same device.


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  10. #20
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    But, handle tie breakers should still be used rather than just sharing the neutral, if only for a safety consideration.. I mean, let’s say you are sharing a three phase circuit as three single phase live, one neutral, one ground, each phase on its own as far as outlets are concerned as all equipment is on 120 volts... even if you run a larger neutral and a larger ground than the live wires, there is still the potential of overload through heating of the neutral or of a fault that trips the one phase still allowing current on the neutral thus still faulting on the other phases but not tripping...

    so, how do you account for it? With a sign that says if breaker x is tripped y and z need turned off to work on circuit?

    Would rather a handle tie at least... and I am one of those they call a handyman who is studying code.. I think I am qualified to do a lot of electrical but this forum has taught me that I have a lot of learning to do...
    Last edited by GoldDigger; 01-05-19 at 05:18 AM. Reason: is tripped- typo
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

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