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Thread: Seven Deadly Sins of Grounding

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    ... the power companies neutral had come unattached to the service of that home. ... power from the neighbors home energized the domestic water pipe ...
    Did you ever figure out how the showerhead and the drain were energized to different potentials?

    The more I hear about events like this, and the more plastic pipe that gets installed, (particularly in old work where some metal pipe remains) the more I think an equipotential grid and periodic testing ought to be required.
    Last edited by drcampbell; 12-09-18 at 10:00 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I didn't say I ordinarily run into this problem, I did say they sometimes are overkill on some things though. But if you hang around here long enough there are a lot of stories about inspectors that don't have a clue - my reply basically was if they are demanding something that I feel is unsafe I am going to stand up for what I think is right. If we can't come to an agreement after reading applicable code, his supervisor gets a call and is involved. They are human and no human is perfect no matter how much they think they are.
    Agreed. So, back to the original. Follow Mike Holts book since it won't kill you and hope the Inspector doesn't overkill the project on some non-code
    Grounding fetish. I stopped that fight years ago. Now, if it's going to cost me a lot of money, yes, my flag is planted right there!

  3. #33
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    It’s not just your side of the pond, we have David Cockburn. His books on earthing and bonding have been withdrawn from sale as downright dangerous, he’s been banned from all UK electricians forums and thrown out of the IET.

    IET = Institute of Engineering and Technology.
    The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcampbell View Post
    Did you ever figure out how the showerhead and the drain were energized to different potentials?

    The more I hear about events like this, and the more plastic pipe that gets installed, (particularly in old work where some metal pipe remains) the more I think an equipotential grid and periodic testing ought to be required.
    Only that when the nieghbors house had a 120 volt load utilized such as the furnace running, it energized the Grounding electrode in this case the domestic water line. In turn since earth will not carry all current back to transformer anyone else tied to domestic water line also were affected. If I remember correctly I read somewhere around 90 volts from shower valve to drain. Naturally since the drains were isolated from water line there would be a difference in potential.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by drcampbell View Post
    Did you ever figure out how the showerhead and the drain were energized to different potentials?

    The more I hear about events like this, and the more plastic pipe that gets installed, (particularly in old work where some metal pipe remains) the more I think an equipotential grid and periodic testing ought to be required.
    If one has a ground rod and a ground connection to the rebar and also a water pipe acting as a ground, and you lose any of the three, you still should have a ground as any one of them is suitable on their own as ground. Thus all this bonding we have been required to do is actually helping us. Plus, if one is as anal as I am, one has a group of ground rods around the home bonded to each other and to the antennas and to the rebar, so should never be concerned about what happens if the water pipe is replaced with plastic...
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    Only that when the nieghbors house had a 120 volt load utilized such as the furnace running, it energized the Grounding electrode in this case the domestic water line. In turn since earth will not carry all current back to transformer anyone else tied to domestic water line also were affected. If I remember correctly I read somewhere around 90 volts from shower valve to drain. Naturally since the drains were isolated from water line there would be a difference in potential.
    If you just had 2 or 3 volts, that would likely be basic voltage drop in the conductor, if you have 90 volts the problematic resistance is in a common path that you and the neighbor were both connected to.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  7. #37
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    You should read some of the PIs that group submitted for the 2020 code. They hold themselves out as grounding experts, but much of what I have read from them is not close to being code compliant. I don't even bother reading any of their stuff any more.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  8. #38
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    I don't mean to pick apart the article, but it is the National Electrical Code, not National Electric Code.

  9. #39
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    Shocking!
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  10. #40
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    Nothing is shocking at all!
    It's just another whitepaper (a government or other report giving information/ proposals on an issue) which needs to be either accepted or downright rejected. Methinks the latter is more appropriate for that.

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