Question About Grounding Ungrounded Receptacles in an Old House

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Hi,

I'm looking for some clarification on what the NEC permits as far as options to ground receptacles that are inherently ungrounded. I live in a 1941 ranch; which of course is no surprise that all of the original circuits are fed by 2-wire ungrounded romex. Although I may choose to keep some of the receptacles in my house as 2 prong ungrounded type (particularly in areas of the home unlikely to see many modern appliance applications), I do wish to convert the majority of the receptacles in the home to grounded circuits. From my previous experience in residential work; whenever a job called for this we'd usually do one of two things; A) Meet the requirement by installing GFCIs on each ungrounded circuit, or B) If the job was much more involved in updating the wiring in the home; we'd just run new 2-wire w/ ground romex to the circuits in need, and rip out the old wiring.

Now to my question; Is it considered an acceptable option according to the NEC to ground my receptacles by running individual ground wires to each circuit from the main service grounding point (Green THHN/TFFN)? I remember a while back being told by a fellow Journeyman that this was a viable option, but am not seeing anywhere in the NEC that permits it (looks more as if it's prohibited in the code). I found some information about an exception in article 303, but it seems inconclusive. Some have told me its an acceptable option, others have told me its never acceptable to ground circuits this way, and yet some others have told me that although the NEC generally prohibits running ground wires to a circuit in the case where the grounds are not contained in the same cable/raceway as the rest of the circuit, there is an exception provided when the circuit of the old work is unable to be modified without replacing the entire cable, and where this is the only means of grounding. I just need some of your opinions on this, so that I can know once and for all if I should even consider grounding my outlets this way. Rewiring the whole house isn't going to be an option for me at the moment (time & money, etc), and would really rather not resort to having to go with GFCIs everywhere in the house for the simple reasons that A) that's expensive, and B) In my opinion, unless a circuit requires a GFCI, I'd rather not have to deal with using them. To me they just tend to be a pain in the rear sometimes with nuisance tripping, bulkiness, etc.

Sorry if I'm rambling on, but would love to hear what you guys have to say.

Thanks, Ryan
 
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iwire

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If it was me I would run new NM cable if I was able to run a green THHN.

The labor and damage will be about the same but you end up with a much better job.


As far as the GFCI option take a look at 250.114 and see the list of items that you cannot supply from ungrounded circuits.
 

ActionDave

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....Rewiring the whole house isn't going to be an option for me at the moment (time & money, etc), and would really rather not resort to having to go with GFCIs everywhere in the house for the simple reasons that A) that's expensive, and B) In my opinion, unless a circuit requires a GFCI, I'd rather not have to deal with using them. To me they just tend to be a pain in the rear sometimes with nuisance tripping, bulkiness, etc.
Just leave the old circuits alone, put GFCI recepts in places that are required by code, and run a new circuit where you need the recept to have an EGC.
 

iwire

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Location
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Just leave the old circuits alone, put GFCI recepts in places that are required by code, and run a new circuit where you need the recept to have an EGC.

Other than the GFCIs I agree

As far as the GFCIs about the only thing accomplished is meeting the allowance for it in the code

It won't provide an EGC if that is what the OP wants.
 

ActionDave

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Other than the GFCIs I agree

As far as the GFCIs about the only thing accomplished is meeting the allowance for it in the code
It would make places like kitchens and garages, that have a high shock hazzard and don't have EGC safer. I see little reason to put a GFCI in a living room just so someone can use three prong recpts.
It won't provide an EGC if that is what the OP wants.
Then he can run one of those new circuits that you and I both suggested.:happyyes:
 

iwire

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It would make places like kitchens and garages, that have a high shock hazzard and don't have EGC safer. I see little reason to put a GFCI in a living room just so someone can use three prong recpts.

But Dave 250.114 prohibits plugging most if not all kitchen appliances into ungrounded receptacles. :p

That said I do agree having a GFCI is safer than not having one.

Then he can run one of those new circuits that you and I both suggested.:happyyes:

Yes, I saw you suggest it too.:cool:

I think we are of the same frame of mind there, if I am going to do the labor to run a single green EGC (when allowed) I would rather just run a new cable.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Question:

If one were to run a single EGC back to an approved location, how would you secure the single conductor to the outlet box and , if chosen, the panel of the circuit origen?

I have never used this method and am curious.
 

jumper

Senior Member
The way I read it, it says you can get it from another circuit, but I don't see where it says it can be separate. I could well be misunderstanding this.

Actually that allowance was just introduced in the 2014. Here are both sections:

(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the en-
closure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates

(4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of an-
other branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
circuit originates
 

rlundsrud

Senior Member
Location
chicago, il, USA
Actually that allowance was just introduced in the 2014. Here are both sections:

(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the en-
closure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates

(4) An equipment grounding conductor that is part of an-
other branch circuit that originates from the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch
circuit originates

Thank you for the clarification!
 

domnic

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
No egc

No egc

What are some of the items that you cannot use with no egc even when the circuit is on a gfci ( 250.14 my code book is back at the shop) ?
 

ActionDave

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What are some of the items that you cannot use with no egc even when the circuit is on a gfci ( 250.14 my code book is back at the shop) ?
The list is somewhat amusing -


250.114 Equipment Connected by Cord and
Plug
Under any of the conditions described in 250.114(1) through
(4), exposed, normally non–current-carrying metal parts of
cord-and-plug-connected equipment shall be connected to
the equipment grounding conductor.....

(3) In residential occupancies:
a. Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners
b. Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing ma-
chines; ranges; kitchen waste disposers; information
technology equipment; sump pumps and electrical
aquarium equipment
c. Hand-held motor-operated tools, stationary and
fixed motor-operated tools, and light industrial motor-
operated tools
d. Motor-operated appliances of the following types:
hedge clippers, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and
wet scrubbers
e. Portable handlamps

Here is the one for non residences

(4) In other than residential occupancies:
a. Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners
b. Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing ma-
chines; information technology equipment; sump
pumps and electrical aquarium equipment
c. Hand-held motor-operated tools, stationary and
fixed motor-operated tools, and light industrial
motor-operated tools
d. Motor-operated appliances of the following types:
hedge clippers, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and
wet scrubbers
e. Portable handlamps
f. Cord-and-plug-connected appliances used in damp
or wet locations or by persons standing on the
ground or on metal floors or working inside of metal
tanks or boilers
g. Tools likely to be used in wet or conductive locations
 

domnic

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
No egc

No egc

In my home if the refrigerator outlet has no egc and I install a gfci on that outlet with no egc is it now up to code ?
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
No, it's a code violation. It would be okay if the fridge is double insulated, but few if any are.

Erm, I thought that replacing a 2 prong outlet with another, a GFCI, or a 3 prong fed from a GFCI receptacle with "GFCI protected/no eqpt ground" stickers were all acceptable - I think MH even has a video about that.

If I replace my refrigerator or washing machine receptacle that sits on 2 wire NM, then how do I do it and keep it code compliant? One of these? :? Hardwire my fridge? (which probably violates its listing)

Also, the start of 250.114 says "...likely to become energized". I say it's unlikely my fridge/washing machine frames become energized except under a fault condition, an abnormal and unlikely scenario.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Erm, I thought that replacing a 2 prong outlet with another, a GFCI, or a 3 prong fed from a GFCI receptacle with "GFCI protected/no eqpt ground" stickers were all acceptable - I think MH even has a video about that.

If I replace my refrigerator or washing machine receptacle that sits on 2 wire NM, then how do I do it and keep it code compliant? One of these? :? Hardwire my fridge? (which probably violates its listing)

Also, the start of 250.114 says "...likely to become energized". I say it's unlikely my fridge/washing machine frames become energized except under a fault condition, an abnormal and unlikely scenario.

I agree with Dave.

Any equipment supplied with electrcity is likely to be energized. If that was not the case we would not need EGCs at all.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
Question:

If one were to run a single EGC back to an approved location, how would you secure the single conductor to the outlet box and , if chosen, the panel of the circuit origen?

I have never used this method and am curious.

I'm curious too.

I usually run new, grounded romex, as others have suggested. But sometimes encounter a situation where a single green wire is desirable.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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Licensed Electrician
Erm, I thought that replacing a 2 prong outlet with another, a GFCI, or a 3 prong fed from a GFCI receptacle with "GFCI protected/no eqpt ground" stickers were all acceptable - I think MH even has a video about that.
Yup. That's in 406.4 which means it applies to receptacles.
If I replace my refrigerator or washing machine receptacle that sits on 2 wire NM, then how do I do it and keep it code compliant? One of these? :? Hardwire my fridge? (which probably violates its listing)
Pull an new circuit or an EGC.
Also, the start of 250.114 says "...likely to become energized". I say it's unlikely my fridge/washing machine frames become energized except under a fault condition, an abnormal and unlikely scenario.
It's title is "Equipment Connected by Cord and Plug" and the first line says, "Under any of the conditions described in 250.114". I don't see where it says, "likely to become energized..."
 
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