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Thread: Experiments

  1. #21
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    but, when you lit it up, was it with chargeable power or waste power? that is the question... I mean, a water company has a leak for a long time, and does nothing to find it. Farmer has no idea it is feeding his pond that he waters his corn from, just knows that he has no problem for a few years with his pond drying up.
    Is the farmer responsible for the water that the water company lost by not fixing the leaks in their pipes?

    Or, taken another way, you capture rainwater from the storms as much as possible, using it on your property. But, by doing so, some rainwater does not make it into the local rivers and streams, so is not able to be captured by the water company to supply their customers. Are you stealing from them?

    I mean, some people have been suing the government claiming solar panels are stealing the suns rays and cause the sun to die..
    Student of electrical codes. Please Take others advice first.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    No question there. But, that doesn't directly answer my last question.
    If i have a simple xfrmer, two coils, one side the primary being driven by a source. There is no load on secondary, so the primary is using power just on self impedance alone. Now add a load to the secondary, what happens to the primary current? Ok, so now keep the load attached to the secondary and then pull the secondary coil away from the primary, what happens to primary current. Now that you have a secondary coil with a load attached (say a 10ohm) and the coil is 20ft away, what's the current on the primary? Ok, now return the secondary back to close proximity of primary, what happens to the current on primary side ?

  3. #23
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    Let me ask it a different way, using a real load, not fluorescent:

    If I string 100 feet of wire below a transmission line and wire it to a light bulb in my shed, and the bulb lights up, I'm clearly using real electricity that I'm not paying for.

    But, when I am using the light, does the transmission line current increase by the amount of my usage, or does the current leaking into the earth decrease by my usage?

    In other words, does my interception of a dripping water leak increase the flow of water in the pipe, or merely decrease the amount of water soaking into the ground?
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
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    Richmond, VA

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionaZuppa View Post
    If i have a simple xfrmer, two coils, one side the primary being driven by a source. There is no load on secondary, so the primary is using power just on self impedance alone. Now add a load to the secondary, what happens to the primary current? Ok, so now keep the load attached to the secondary and then pull the secondary coil away from the primary, what happens to primary current. Now that you have a secondary coil with a load attached (say a 10ohm) and the coil is 20ft away, what's the current on the primary? Ok, now return the secondary back to close proximity of primary, what happens to the current on primary side ?
    Not the same question. I know magnetic coupling affects transfer of power.

    I'm asking whether intercepting power increases the line loss or merely uses some of the existing loss.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  5. #25
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    190104-2134 EST

    Larry Fine:

    An experiment you can perform.

    Components: Kill-A-Watt EZ, 30 mfd high quality capacitor, and 5 ohm power resistor.

    First, measure capacitor alone with about 120 V 60 Hz applied. I read 1.4 A and about 0.7 W.
    Second, add a series 5 ohm power resistor. I read 1.38 A and about 10.4 W.

    Be careful. The capacitor retains the voltage of at the time of last turn off. On a high quality capacitor this voltage only dissipates slowly.

    The capacitor alone near zero loss.

    .

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar View Post
    First, measure capacitor alone with about 120 V 60 Hz applied. I read 1.4 A and about 0.7 W.
    Second, add a series 5 ohm power resistor. I read 1.38 A and about 10.4 W.
    So the addition of the series resistor increases the power consumption by almost 15 times???

    And with no increase in current?


    That still doesn't tell us where the intercepted power comes from, or where it otherwise goes.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    My question is whether the energy consumed is additional energy taken from the line or a reduction in the energy otherwise lost.
    A very good question. At the simplest, it is a theoretically measurable drain on the energy carried by the transmission line. It may be difficult to distinguish from increased environmental losses.
    If you turn the bulb on and off there would either be a change in the real power going into the line or a change in the power coming out the other end, depending on how the line is regulated.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  8. #28
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    190104-2453 EST

    LarryFine:

    In my demonstration experiment there was virtually no power loss before the series resistor was added. The same is true of the power line situation. Add the dissipating load and the power to the load is extracted from the source. It is added load to the source. It is not transferred from from somewhere else.

    .

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar View Post
    In my demonstration experiment there was virtually no power loss before the series resistor was added. The same is true of the power line situation. Add the dissipating load and the power to the load is extracted from the source. It is added load to the source. It is not transferred from from somewhere else.
    I don't see the correlation between your experiment and my question. Your closed-circuit examples are not the same as a wireless induction interaction.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    I don't see the correlation between your experiment and my question. Your closed-circuit examples are not the same as a wireless induction interaction.
    The AC transmission line acts as a transformer primary with electromagnetic flux radiating out. The Fluorescent tube acts as a secondary converting part of energy in the electromagnetic flux into light energy.

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