bathroom circuit requirement

Status
Not open for further replies.

GJAG

Member
Location
Eagan, MN, USA
Where does it say that you can feed more than one bathroom on the required 20 amp circuit required for a Dwelling unit bathroom-like it shows on figure 210-51 figure in Mikes Understanding the code book. 210.11 C3 says "This circuit shall have no other outlets"
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
You have the correct section.... It states you can supply a bathroom receptacle outlets. IMO, this is poor wording the word "a" is what is confusing. It means all receptacle outlets in all bathrooms

Such circuits shall have no other outlets means other than bathroom receptacles
 

jumper

Senior Member
210.11(C)

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits.
In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be pro-
vided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such cir-
cuits shall have no other outlets.

Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2)
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
IMO the wording is so poor that it does not allow you to use the same circuit for more than one bathroom even if that's the intent. You can have multiple receptacles in a bathroom on the 20 amp circuit.

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits.
In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
IMO the wording is so poor that it does not allow you to use the same circuit for more than one bathroom even if that's the intent. You can have multiple receptacles in a bathroom on the 20 amp circuit.
IMHO a problem is the broken parallel construction.
The alternative texts are intended to be
1. "a bathroom receptacle", and
2. "bathroom receptacles".
Grammatically the "a" modifies receptacle, not bathroom.
A typographical convention I propose for this type of alternative construction would be:
"...)a( bathroom receptacle(s)." indicating that you have either "a" or "s" depending.
:angel:

FWIW if infiniity's meaning were intended, the text should read "...a bathroom's receptacle(s)" or, avoiding the hassle completely, the receptacle(s) in one bathroom.
I think that they were trying to avoid the interpretation that they were requiring two or more receptacles, and hit a different snag in the process.
 

jumper

Senior Member
IMHO a problem is the broken parallel construction.
The alternative texts are intended to be
1. "a bathroom receptacle", and
2. "bathroom receptacles".
Grammatically the "a" modifies receptacle, not bathroom.
A typographical convention I propose for this type of alternative construction would be:
"...)a( bathroom receptacle(s)." indicating that you have either "a" or "s" depending.
:angel:

Can you say that in American, my English sucks.:D
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I suppose one could infer from the exception that the regular rule means more than one bath.

You're probably correct that we derive that from it being inferred in the exception but to answer the OP's question "Where does it say that you can feed more than one bathroom on the required 20 amp circuit" it doesn't. :)
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Seems the NFPA can't nail down the English on this one.

1996: 210-52(d): In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms adjacent to each basin location. Bathroom receptacle outlets shall be supplied by at least one 20-ampere branch circuit. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.....

1999: 210-11(c)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2002: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2005 and 2008 and 2011: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the deletion of the word 'the' between 'supply' and 'bathroom']

2014: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the addition of the word 'a' between 'supply' and 'bathroom'. This change is NOT highlighted in gray, nor is it mentioned in the current Errata!]
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Seems the NFPA can't nail down the English on this one.

1996: 210-52(d): In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms adjacent to each basin location. Bathroom receptacle outlets shall be supplied by at least one 20-ampere branch circuit. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.....

1999: 210-11(c)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2002: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2005 and 2008 and 2011: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the deletion of the word 'the' between 'supply' and 'bathroom']

2014: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the addition of the word 'a' between 'supply' and 'bathroom'. This change is NOT highlighted in gray, nor is it mentioned in the current Errata!]
Interesting. Nice work 480 and nice catch on the un-highlighted word change in '14.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Seems the NFPA can't nail down the English on this one.

1996: 210-52(d): In dwelling units, at least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms adjacent to each basin location. Bathroom receptacle outlets shall be supplied by at least one 20-ampere branch circuit. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.....

1999: 210-11(c)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2002: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception).

2005 and 2008 and 2011: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the deletion of the word 'the' between 'supply' and 'bathroom']

2014: 210.11(C)(3): In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets. (followed by exception). [notice the addition of the word 'a' between 'supply' and 'bathroom'. This change is NOT highlighted in gray, nor is it mentioned in the current Errata!]

so do you conclude the difference is a grammer mistake or reference to each bathroom has its own receptacle circuit?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I think the code is meant to state that one circuit can supply power to all bathroom receptacles or one circuit can feed one bathroom entirely but nothing else.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Seems it would be simpler just to take the "a" out between "supply" and "bathrooms".


JAP>
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
You're probably correct that we derive that from it being inferred in the exception but to answer the OP's question "Where does it say that you can feed more than one bathroom on the required 20 amp circuit" it doesn't. :)

"Everything not forbidden is permitted."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top