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Thread: Red and white as travelers on a 3 or 4 way switch

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamjamma View Post
    Rope to me is any cables running into a box, be it Romex or others... because the wires are twisted inside the outer sheath...
    Interestingly, while 2-conductor NM has maybe always been parallel (not twisted) inside the sheath, now the 3-conductor stuff is being made parallel, too. Hopefully, the house builders' rope jockeys will split a lot less insulation (at least on the hot conductors) now, when using their razor knives for splitting the sheathes. The hot conductors are on the outside, and the knife can go down the middle much more easily when it's flat.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by brantmacga View Post
    Aren’t dead-end 3-ways no longer allowed with NM? You have to include a grounded conductor, so you’d at least need another cable coming in with the neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    You can get NM cable with two neutrals in it now for that very reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    I believe it’s only when a dead end switch is the only switch location within that room. Otherwise it is a 3way setup then only 1 of the 2 that within said room need to contain a neutral.
    And, in addition to these excellent points, in a pinch, with attention to 300.20, one can always run a pair of 2-conductor cables, close together or separately, resulting in two blacks and two whites in the dead-end threeway.
    Another Al in Minnesota

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    You can get NM cable with two neutrals in it now for that very reason.
    Right.. I forgot about the creeping requirement to have a neutral everywhere to power 'smart' switches.

    Recoding would permit you to use one of the neutrals in this case, or you could get '14-4' NM cable with 3 hots and a neutral. I'd go with whatever is cheaper.

    I thought the 'two hots two neutrals' cable was introduced because of AFCIs that could not properly share neutrals.

    -Jon

  4. #74
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    Just a quick look at Home Depot prices for 250-ft rolls:

    14/2 : $46
    14/2/2 : $142

    I think I'll avoid needing it, if I can.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Just a quick look at Home Depot prices for 250-ft rolls:

    14/2 : $46
    14/2/2 : $142

    I think I'll avoid needing it, if I can.
    Agreed, although they don't carry it here. If you're pulling that much cable, you can afford to use two rolls at the same time for the same labor.

    I might consider 14/4, if there is such a thing, for certain work, like multi-function bath fans.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    I might consider 14/4, if there is such a thing, for certain work, like multi-function bath fans.
    There definitely is. I keep a roll of #14 & #12 and throw them on the truck as needed. White, Black, Red and Blue.

    Been keeping it in stock for a decade now.
    Another Al in Minnesota

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    I might consider 14/4, if there is such a thing, for certain work, like multi-function bath fans.
    There is such a thing, but you might need to hunt it down or special order it.

    This place has 12/4:
    https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/...re-yellow.html

    But they don't list 14/4. Only 14/2/2

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamjamma View Post
    Rope to me is any cables running into a box, be it Romex or others... because the wires are twisted inside the outer sheath...
    But I could have been taught wrong... I was also taught that Lightbulb Grease was vaseline... you put it on out door bulb bases to stop water problems..like the tailights on my old ford van..lol...and Sky Hooks were those long poles you changed out lightbulbs with from the ground..
    These days Lightbulb Grease is silicone-based instead.

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