Bored Holes or Running Boards: Poll and Discussion

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Bored Holes or Running Boards: Poll and Discussion


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JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Coming from posts on this thread, I thought this to be good topic: when needed, like running smaller size NM cable in a basement or crawlspace, do you prefer to use running boards, or bore holes thru joists? What do you find are the pros and cons of each method?

I will add my 2 zincs later.
 
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Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I voted "bored holes" although it very well be "combination" at times.
I don't like to have to carry lumber, measure/cut it, screw/nail it up, then go back and run wire, then staple that!
So maybe, a combination of bored holes & sill plate.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Case by case, for sure.

Typically the higher the ceiling, the less likely I am to drill holes.

Even low ceiling I don't care to drill unless it's more convenient overall.

I'm more inclined to nail Stak-its along sill plate, every other bay, and clip 8-10 home runs in them.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
I voted combination but I would rather run them on the bottom of the joists.
I still don't see the problem running the NM cable perpendicular to the joist. Further more what is the difference between running the NM on the face of the joist VS 1" above through bored holes.
 
As I stated before, I think stapling takes too much time so I try to avoid it as much as possible. I think boring holes is far quicker than stapling unless the joist system is mess, insulated, ducts, large beams, etc. Even if I used running boards I would probably use stackers on them unless I only had a few cables.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I voted bored holes. The only times I might staple is when I have just one run in a crawlspace that is long and running perpendicular to the joists, or the joists are insulated, and ofc if the roof in engineered trusses. In VA we are allowed to run small NM cable perpendicular w/o running boards in crawlspaces, but I find on remodels that jobs done this way look like absolute garbage - cable piles up and is just a mess. Even three quarter million dollar homes are not immune to this.

I'd rather carry a cordless drill with a sharp 7/8" spade bit into a crawlspace than a hammer and bag of stackers/staples, the latter of which always wind up all over the place. Old wood bends staples rather easily, and hammering while on my back, I always wind up with stuff in my face. Drilling is quieter too, which some HOs appreciate. ofc I staple where I have to, and if I'm running parallel with the joists, I'll staple, but I dont saddle the wire under any beams - I'll drill a hole thru the blocking and continue.

The only drawback to bored holes is woodchips, which can take a while to clean up when the HO has stuff everywhere in unfinished basements. I find taking a small box and holding it under the TJI/joist where I'm drilling to catch the chips/dust to be much easier to clean up than shop-vaccing everywhere.

Short story: a guy I used to worked for was almost phobic against drilling holes. I had to run two 10/2 NM about 35' from the panel to outside wall - straight shot across the joists, which had to be drilled. I started to drill, and he yells at me.

He wants me to make a 90* bend from the panel, run the cables 15' down the joist, another 90* turn out to the open truss framing across the deck (which had no boards on it at the time), 90* turn back (15 more feet), then another 90* turn to the exterior wall. 4 extra 90s, and 60 extra feet of wire. He said boring holes "took too long". I explained to him that 60 extra feet of 10/2 would cost about 2 hours of my labor, and at best it would take me 10 minutes to drill 20 some holes in the 10' ceilings. I also could drill and pull wire with only moving the ladder once. Despite saving him money (and time imo), he still wasnt happy.

Had we done it his way my second cable pull would have wound up about 3' too short, requiring it to be pulled back out. Same guy also had me pull all of his 2nd floor homeruns up to the attic and back down, instead of down and thru the 1st floor joists, because we wouldnt have to drill in the attic... then complains we used too much wire. Well, duh, when you use an extra 12-16' per home run, that's what happens.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Further more what is the difference between running the NM on the face of the joist VS 1" above through bored holes.


Nothing, both would be a violation. But you could use a nail guard if you drilled the hole only an inch above the face of the joist. You could notch the joist and run on the face with a nail guard.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Pretty simple/quick to follow a plate around the edge & who doesn't secure up the side of the joist when running parallel with it -- holes are neccesary but try to keep as a minimum -- crawlspaces are nasty stuff spend as little time as possible in them.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Short story: a guy I used to worked for was almost phobic against drilling holes.


Maybe he had guys that didn't know or watch what they were doing when drilling holes and this caused problems. There are a lot of people doing electrical work that are not very smart.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
crawlspaces are nasty stuff spend as little time as possible in them.

The designation as crawl space can be deceptive. You may need to crawl around in some crawl spaces and others have plenty of head room and even are well lighted and clean. All crawl spaces are not created equal.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
Nothing, both would be a violation. But you could use a nail guard if you drilled the hole only an inch above the face of the joist. You could notch the joist and run on the face with a nail guard.

Violation yes. I agree. But we are installing NM cable in the crawl space through bored holes or on running boards so next person or dog crawling does not pull on them, or hang from them or ..... So 1" above the bottom of the joist does not make a difference vs below the joist.

Nail plates in the crawl space??
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Violation yes. I agree. But we are installing NM cable in the crawl space through bored holes or on running boards so next person or dog crawling does not pull on them, or hang from them or ..... So 1" above the bottom of the joist does not make a difference vs below the joist.


At one time we were allowed to staple to the bottom of joist in crawl space. I have noticed that some of those jobs were stapled very well and are still in good condition. Others were not done very well and are now hanging loose. If the cable is run through bored holes at least the cable is not now laying in the dirt.

The real problem (as I see it ) was that many people (not all ) were not doing a very good job of stapleing their cable in crawl spaces. I have seen plenty of jobs where there were few or no staples. Many of these job were inspected. I would guess that as usual the idea was to make the code more strict to correct the problem.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Maybe he had guys that didn't know or watch what they were doing when drilling holes and this caused problems. There are a lot of people doing electrical work that are not very smart.

Perhaps. If I'm drilling blind, I'll run my hand on the backside of the joist to check for any plumbing, FA wire, etc... or just move the ladder and look at it. It happens tho; when I first started in telecom, one of the bosses other employees didnt check and ran a 3" holesaw thru the EC's homeruns... about a dozen 12/2 NM got mangled... costly mistake.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Violation yes. I agree. But we are installing NM cable in the crawl space through bored holes or on running boards so next person or dog crawling does not pull on them, or hang from them or ..... So 1" above the bottom of the joist does not make a difference vs below the joist.

Nail plates in the crawl space??

Drilled holes cannot be within 2" of either top or bottom edge of joists....


IBC 2308.8.2 Framing details. Joists shall be supported laterally at the ends and at each support by solid blocking
except where the ends of the joists are nailed to a header, band or rim joist or to an adjoining stud or by other means.
Solid blocking shall not be less than 2 inches (51mm) in thickness and the full depth of the joist. Notches on the ends of
joists shall not exceed one-fourth the joist depth. Holes bored in joists shall not be within 2 inches (51 mm) of the top or
bottom of the joist, and the diameter of any such hole shall not exceed one-third the depth of the joist.
Notches in the top
or bottom of joists shall not exceed one-sixth the depth and shall not be located in the middle third of the span
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
The designation as crawl space can be deceptive. You may need to crawl around in some crawl spaces and others have plenty of head room and even are well lighted and clean. All crawl spaces are not created equal.


Certainly are many place called "crawlspace" that you didn't need to crawl but I answered the question in a literal way of crawling not standing on a ladder -- that describes more of an unfinsihed basement in which drilling holes would be more appropriate.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Certainly are many place called "crawlspace" that you didn't need to crawl but I answered the question in a literal way of crawling not standing on a ladder -- that describes more of an unfinsihed basement in which drilling holes would be more appropriate.


The difference that I have seen between a basement and crawl space is with a basement there is access form the interior of the house (stairway) and a concrete floor and can have windows instead of vents.

With a crawl space there is normally just dirt and no flooring, access is from the exterior and need to be vented because of moisture (dirt floor).
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
I tried using stackers for running multiple cables along a beam in a crawlspace under a house I rewired. I wasn't all that thrilled with the looks in the end and ended up using a lot of staples to make it look better - no sags.
 
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