Meter housing embedded in brick

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wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
I'm inspecting a residential project and the new service panel (meter/ breaker combo) is mounted on the outside of the structure and surrounded by the brick of the building. The edges of the new tub are exposed by about 2inches and the rest is embedded in the brick.

My concern is that the mortar may deteriorate the box. As opposed to mounting it directly on the brick.

The door opens correctly and the tub was not modified in any way, it is just surrounded by the brick. As an inspector are there any concerns you all would have with this installation?

Thank you as always...
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
I'm inspecting a residential project and the new service panel (meter/ breaker combo) is mounted on the outside of the structure and surrounded by the brick of the building. The edges of the new tub are exposed by about 2inches and the rest is embedded in the brick.

My concern is that the mortar may deteriorate the box. As opposed to mounting it directly on the brick.

The door opens correctly and the tub was not modified in any way, it is just surrounded by the brick. As an inspector are there any concerns you all would have with this installation?

Thank you as always...

Some POCOs do not allowed unmetered conductors to be embedded, the raceway containing them must be visible. [Except maybe for a foot or so passing from above the roof to the soffit.]
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I'm inspecting a residential project and the new service panel (meter/ breaker combo) is mounted on the outside of the structure and surrounded by the brick of the building. The edges of the new tub are exposed by about 2inches and the rest is embedded in the brick.

My concern is that the mortar may deteriorate the box. As opposed to mounting it directly on the brick.

The door opens correctly and the tub was not modified in any way, it is just surrounded by the brick. As an inspector are there any concerns you all would have with this installation?

Thank you as always...

Do you have a picture? I can envision many variables but just assume know which conditions exist before stating an opinion.
 

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Some POCOs do not allowed unmetered conductors to be embedded, the raceway containing them must be visible. [Except maybe for a foot or so passing from above the roof to the soffit.]

That is a fact for our POCO. The raceway for said conductors has been exposed.
 

wrobotronic

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Does the manufacturer allow it?

This is something I cannot find. It's a GE meter combo and the info for this tub does not say one way or the other if it can be installed in this way.

I have even looked to the NEMA site to see what allowances they have for the enclosure. And they do not say either way.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
This is something I cannot find. It's a GE meter combo and the info for this tub does not say one way or the other if it can be installed in this way.

I have even looked to the NEMA site to see what allowances they have for the enclosure. And they do not say either way.

As stated earlier I would be more concerned with what POCO had to say about it if the unmetered service entrance conductors were not visible.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I had a similar situation like this a few years ago. The service was a 200 amp underground and the cover of meter the enclosure was rusted. However, the interior was in good condition. I sanded down the cover, re-painted it and re-installed it.

Whether it's an approved installation or not is questionable. IMHO it wouldn't be because the enclosure should be serviceable and in my case the brick was added years after the house was built. I'm sure the mason didn't have any types of code books with him at the time he installed the brick (I doubt he would have referenced it anyway). The only downside that I can think of with this installation is that if for some reason that meter enclosure had to be replaced you would have to bust out the brick around it because the new meter enclosure you'd have to install is probably not going to be the same size and you would have to lift the enclosure off the conduit connector. If you have an overhead service it would be a violation as has been previously mentioned. You cannot embed the SE cable, gal mast or PVC riser under the brick face as it would be considered unprotected service wiring "inside" the house. On the other hand, if it were possible to embed that conduit riser in 6" of concrete that might be acceptable but I would check with the EI.

Just my opinion.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I had a similar situation like this a few years ago. The service was a 200 amp underground and the cover of meter the enclosure was rusted. However, the interior was in good condition. I sanded down the cover, re-painted it and re-installed it.

Whether it's an approved installation or not is questionable. IMHO it wouldn't be because the enclosure should be serviceable and in my case the brick was added years after the house was built. I'm sure the mason didn't have any types of code books with him at the time he installed the brick (I doubt he would have referenced it anyway). The only downside that I can think of with this installation is that if for some reason that meter enclosure had to be replaced you would have to bust out the brick around it because the new meter enclosure you'd have to install is probably not going to be the same size and you would have to lift the enclosure off the conduit connector. If you have an overhead service it would be a violation as has been previously mentioned. You cannot embed the SE cable, gal mast or PVC riser under the brick face as it would be considered unprotected service wiring "inside" the house. On the other hand, if it were possible to embed that conduit riser in 6" of concrete that might be acceptable but I would check with the EI.

Just my opinion.
I think the OP is the EI on this one.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I think the OP is the EI on this one.
Good pick-up. I guess it would be helpful if I read the OP more closely next time. Anyway, aside from my advice to ask the EI, my opinions still stand. While the HO may think embedding the meter enclosure looks great, somewhere down the line, when the meter enclosure has to be replaced, the brick will have to be chopped out. If the present HO's don't plan on being in the house long then they're dumping the problem on the next HO.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Good pick-up. I guess it would be helpful if I read the OP more closely next time. Anyway, aside from my advice to ask the EI, my opinions still stand. While the HO may think embedding the meter enclosure looks great, somewhere down the line, when the meter enclosure has to be replaced, the brick will have to be chopped out. If the present HO's don't plan on being in the house long then they're dumping the problem on the next HO.
I'm with you, I think it is in general a bad idea. If I should run into one that needs replacing - the replacement is likely getting surface mounted and old one abandoned in place.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
One could argue that the conduit inside the brick is inside the building. IMO, it is not and there is nothing wrong with this install. I have seen it done all over here in NC in past years but I wonder about whether or not the meter base is listed for that purpose.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
One could argue that the conduit inside the brick is inside the building. IMO, it is not and there is nothing wrong with this install. I have seen it done all over here in NC in past years but I wonder about whether or not the meter base is listed for that purpose.
My argument of whether or not it is inside depends on how much masonry wall material vs combustible wall material is between the conduit and the interior side of the wall.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
It has not been established that the conduit is in the wall. OP said he'd get us a picture. That should be easier than asking infinite questions.

What may be even easier for OP is to call POCO and say "Will you call this guy and tell him you're not connecting that service?" If POCO says they won't connect due to non-compliance with POCO construction details, that's a valid reason to decline to sign off because it means work is not complete.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
I would think this is a POCO decision as the local one here sets guidelines on meter installs -- table 110.28 would determine whether the enclosure type is resistant to corrosive agents -- If the POCO has problems with the install and you are aware of it then informing the EC of what could possibly happen is your course IMO -- should not reject a NEC compliant install due to POCO regulations. EC should deal with POCO
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I don't want to cause any confusion here. This is not the OP's installation. It is one that I experienced a few years ago. The service was underground and I'm guessing the brick was installed sometime after the house was built.



As I mentioned, I don't think the mason or the HO realized that this might be a problem or maybe they did and did not care. Imagine the possibility that the interior of this meter enclosure was corroded and think about what you would have to do to replace it.
 
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