Whole house wireless switching

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GDiaz

Member
Location
Pittsburgh
I'm building a new house and I want to use wireless switching for all lighting.

Its just too easy switch on a light to require a hard wired connection to a wall mounted switch.

I realize the NEC says: At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet must be installed in every habitable room and bathroom of a dwelling unit. Plus Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets can be controlled by occupancy sensors equipped with a manual override that permits the sensor to function as a wall switch.

So it is possible to put wireless load controller in the lighting outlet to meet the NEC and use any number of wireless transmitters to control lighting circuit - without a hard wired switch?

Or must I install hard wired manual switches between the panel and the lighting outlets. The NEC doesn't require the switch to be in the same room does it?

Have anyone had any experience with this?
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
{Moderator's Note: What appears below is merely my own interpretation of the relevant code. Please limit any further discussion to being of that nature. We are not permitted to offer advice on how to solve any remaining code-related difficulties.}

Strictly speaking, I don't think your suggested installation would comply with the code. You would not be using occupancy sensors that are located in the traditional locations of wall switches, and the thing you would put into the wall switch location would not, by itself, and without the cooperation of a wireless transmitter, allow a person to manually turn on the lights.

I believe the clear intention of the code is that just before, just as, or just after a person enters a room, that person can reach a hand out to a spot on the wall and manually turn on at least one light within the room. Your installation would not accommodate that intent. I am aware that we are not required to comply with the code authors' intent, but with the wording of the code itself. I am also aware that you could install one, and only one, manual wall switch in the deep, dark, recesses of a dangerously cluttered basement, with that one switch wired so as to turn on all lights in the entire building, and you would thereby comply with the NEC. Some local and state energy codes might have a thing or two to say about this, but the NEC does not require the wall switch to be in the same room as the lighting outlet.

It would not be necessary for the "thing inside the wall switch's customary location" to have a wire that runs to the lighting outlet. You can arrange for your portable device to give a wireless command to the "thing inside the wall switch's customary location," or you can have the portable device give a wireless command directly to the lighting outlet itself. But the "thing inside the wall switch's customary location" must have a thing that can be touched by a human hand, with that touch causing a light to go on or off. It is this "touched by a human hand" part that your suggested installation does not include, and that, I believe, is the part that fails to comply with the code.
 
Last edited:

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I would like to say that your proposition might be compliant and meet the intent of the code, as a professional in the field I think it is a bad idea. My reasoning is that though the manufactures are giving extremely long warranties on these type of controls they probably fail at one time. You would not want to be removing fixtures to replace several modules after a power issue.

Secondly a local switch allows for one turn of power locally to safely change a bulb. A completely wireless set up does not.

My personal preference is local switches with remote control features. The local switches can be placed somewhere hidden and accessible for service, then a multi button remote wall control in the necessary obvious locations.
something to think about.

When those whole home automation panels are used there usually no local way to turn off power to replace lamps. Many times a lamp is changed and the lamp gets shorted out and the dimming module fries. If you have the money for that sort of thing then go for it.


IMHO
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm building a new house and I want to use wireless switching for all lighting.

Its just too easy switch on a light to require a hard wired connection to a wall mounted switch.

I realize the NEC says: At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet must be installed in every habitable room and bathroom of a dwelling unit. Plus Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets can be controlled by occupancy sensors equipped with a manual override that permits the sensor to function as a wall switch.

So it is possible to put wireless load controller in the lighting outlet to meet the NEC and use any number of wireless transmitters to control lighting circuit - without a hard wired switch?

Or must I install hard wired manual switches between the panel and the lighting outlets. The NEC doesn't require the switch to be in the same room does it?

Have anyone had any experience with this?
No NEC doesn't require the switch to be in the same room. In fact you can place the switch for a third floor bedroom light in the basement if you wanted, so put all your switches in remote locations out of the way if you really want that.

Only two instances I am aware of that have any sort of location requirements or lighting switches, one is in stairways of more then three risers (I think it is three), you must have a switch at each level, but again nothing says it must be in or near the stairway - so put one switch on each level but in the furthest corner away from the stairs if you wish and you still are in compliance with NEC.

The other required location for a lighting switch I do believe is near a crawlspace entrance if the crawlspace contains equipment requiring servicing.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160319-0850 EDT

GDiaz:

From what school did you get your engineering degree? When did you graduate? What was your speciality?

Why do you want to use wireless control? How are the wireless switches going to be powered? What is the likely reliability of the switches? What is the future availability of components? Are these secure against outside control? It is quite difficult for someone from outside of your home to operate a plain old toggle switch inside your home.

What is the voltage drop across the power switch? How durable are the power switches (Triac, SCR, mechanical, or whatever) under high voltage transient conditions? Where are the actual power switches going to be located? At your wireless switch do you get feedback from the switched circuit as to its state?

Does the switched state maintain its last state under loss of power conditions, or high voltage transient conditions?

How susceptacle to microwave RFI are the switches? A plain old mechanical switch will probably last 100 years. The original switches are still in Henry Ford's Fairlane Estate, and most of their life they switched DC. These are somewhat over 100 years old.

My suggestion is to use GE RR series relays located in gang boxes with low voltage wiring from machanical control switches. This allows the up position of the controlling switch to always mean on and down to mean off. As many switches as desired can be paralleled. Feedback of on-ness state is available. You can add logic to simultaneously control as many circuits as you want at one time. You can have programmed control of lights in any pattern. Switches are mechanical contacts and have low voltage drop. Very little problem with voltage transients. The RR switch is likely to be around for a long time. It was created in the 1950s.

Except for some outside RF or other remote control you might add to your RR circuits a wired RR system is not susceptacle to outside control.

I have had and used RR relays in my home for 50 years. Very few failures, and not much wasted power. I actually first used an RR relay in 1958.

I have lots of electronic equipment, HP and Tektronix, that has not lasted this long. But I also have some electronic equipment I built that long ago that still works. Big problems with electronic equipment over time are heat and electrolytic capacitors, and in older equipment tubes. Semiconductors really solved the tube problem, 1000 hours to 100s of thousands of hours. Some semiconductors can have long life times. It was hard to keep a tube type computer running for 1 hour. I still have two GE Triac dimmers that work after 50 years.

I agree with iwire's comment.

.
 

GDiaz

Member
Location
Pittsburgh
Thanks for all the input

Thanks for all the input

Ok a lot of questions that I'm not sure pertain to a question about meeting the code. But just so you understand where I'm coming from I have a BS in Physics (1982) and have 30 years electrical product testing experience working for the top two product safety labs including UL. I was just looking for the code requirements I needed to meet.

My intention was to locate 10 inch tablets at the standard wall switch location in each bedroom. The benefits of a $80 tablet over a $35 wall switch should be obvious - intercom, switching, occ sensor, thermostat, camera monitor, etc. Additionally the tablets would be detachable with inductive charger built-in to the original wall location. Other locations would have 7 inch tablets non-detachable - same functions. Defaults to switch App when placed on wall or after specific time.

As for the load controllers yes I was looking at ones using NO relays. The entire system would be controlled by any number of signal hubs allowing enocean, zigbee, Zwave, wifi etc. As for security at this time the control channel would not be net accessible - unless I allow Alexa voice control - testing now.

As for replacement parts - nothing special here all tablets are Android based - future indicates more LED bulbs will self-contain direct wireless control including dimming.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Ok a lot of questions that I'm not sure pertain to a question about meeting the code. But just so you understand where I'm coming from I have a BS in Physics (1982) and have 30 years electrical product testing experience working for the top two product safety labs including UL. I was just looking for the code requirements I needed to meet.

My intention was to locate 10 inch tablets at the standard wall switch location in each bedroom. The benefits of a $80 tablet over a $35 wall switch should be obvious - intercom, switching, occ sensor, thermostat, camera monitor, etc. Additionally the tablets would be detachable with inductive charger built-in to the original wall location. Other locations would have 7 inch tablets non-detachable - same functions. Defaults to switch App when placed on wall or after specific time.

As for the load controllers yes I was looking at ones using NO relays. The entire system would be controlled by any number of signal hubs allowing enocean, zigbee, Zwave, wifi etc. As for security at this time the control channel would not be net accessible - unless I allow Alexa voice control - testing now.

As for replacement parts - nothing special here all tablets are Android based - future indicates more LED bulbs will self-contain direct wireless control including dimming.

You need to get out of your technology nest once in a while and experience what mother nature gave us.

If you have extra money you don't know what to do with I can get rid of it for you.:D

Don't take that the wrong way no harm intended here;)
 

stevenje

Senior Member
Location
Yachats Oregon
Ok a lot of questions that I'm not sure pertain to a question about meeting the code. But just so you understand where I'm coming from I have a BS in Physics (1982) and have 30 years electrical product testing experience working for the top two product safety labs including UL. I was just looking for the code requirements I needed to meet.

My intention was to locate 10 inch tablets at the standard wall switch location in each bedroom. The benefits of a $80 tablet over a $35 wall switch should be obvious - intercom, switching, occ sensor, thermostat, camera monitor, etc. Additionally the tablets would be detachable with inductive charger built-in to the original wall location. Other locations would have 7 inch tablets non-detachable - same functions. Defaults to switch App when placed on wall or after specific time.

As for the load controllers yes I was looking at ones using NO relays. The entire system would be controlled by any number of signal hubs allowing enocean, zigbee, Zwave, wifi etc. As for security at this time the control channel would not be net accessible - unless I allow Alexa voice control - testing now.

As for replacement parts - nothing special here all tablets are Android based - future indicates more LED bulbs will self-contain direct wireless control including dimming.

There is nothing more frustrating, when your half a sleep, than having to punch in your 16 digit password, to turn on the bathroom light in the middle of the night when you really have to go.

KISS comes to mind. It's just a switch. ;)
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160321-1107 EDT

GDiaz:

Some new comments and restatements of my previous comments.

I grew up in the cat-whisker, incandescent filament bulb, radio tube, and $0.05 D cell days. Also electrolytic capacitors were relatively new and weren't very reliable. Normal radio tubes or light bulbs had a possible life of 1000 hours.

In the summer of 1952 I made a point contact transistor in my YMCA room in Brooklyn, N.Y. In the 1940s Xerography was demonstrated, photoflash tubes became available, and wire-recorders were workable. Long distance radio communication was operational only at certain times and conditions. About 1945 radio (radar at about 100 mHz) waves were bounced of the moon and received back on earth. Ignorant people on Dec 7, 1941 ignored radar information bounced off Japanese planes headed toward Pearl Harbor.

Printed circuit boards showed up in the early 1950s. By 1954 a commerical junction transistor was available for about $4.50 in 1950 dollars. By 1955 Delco was making power transistors, and by 1960 GE was making SCRs. Electrolytic capacitors were much better. Now we were on the road to long term reliability.

I have tube type Heathkit things that still work, they are not powered much, most of my HP and Tektronix equipment from the 60s and some newer do not work.

I have become much more concerned with reliability since the advent of components that can provide long life. I also see a lot of newly made equipment that is short lived. Because an LED bulb can be made with an internal dimmer and is addressable for control does not make it a good product to put into a permanent system today, nor is it necessarily reliable. There is going to be too much shakeout of present ideas.

A system built on simplicity is what I look for. Plain old toggle switches are simple and when well bulit have long life. I do favor the GE RR relay type system because it adds functional capability, is still moderately simple, and when properly designed can provide very reliable operation. You have no problem with making an RR system code compliant. To an RR system you can add any fancy stuff you want and still maintain the basic system as a long life reliable and code compliant system.

RR relays are a mechanically bi-stable SPST switch. There is a set and a reset coil for each relay. These are not continuous duty coils. Thus, the control circuitry must be designed to limit the pulse energy to a coil, and then you can have the 50 year plus life that I have experienced.

The GE control switches that I have are of two forms, one with a lever, and the other with a flat surface. The lever I prefer, but it was discontinued part way thru my construction. It takes a fraction of a second for me to operate a GE control switch, and it almost always works. By comparison my cellphone touch screen does not always respond and is not as fast or durable. For my kitchen I have control switches in five different locations all in parallel and wired with small wire. No poblem putting three control switches in one box. Photos follow:

PICT3870.JPG
PICT3871.jpg


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RF linked switches are susceptible to microwave oven RFI jamming. Poweline carrier current communication also has interference problems. Plain old hard wired switches are quite immune to interference.

.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Just for my 2 cents worth the NEC Governs wiring methods not wireless installment methods-- IMHO the reference to switching in the NEC references a type of wiring method -- is a keyless with pullchain NEC compliant for required switching throughout a dwelling?
 

The_Archer

Member
Location
New York
I agree with Rt66, Not diving directly into the an actual answer for you, my thoughts are that wireless switching may not be easily fixed or replaced down the road without having the hardwired infrastructure in the walls. I think for selling the house and down the road issues that anything wireless is problematic long term. Somewhat related, I am having issues galore with wireless solar monitoring. I am finding that wireless devices that were reliable a year ago are now having issues because of remote wireless water meters, upgraded home wireless phone bases, etc not a reliable technology in my opinion for dwelling lighting.
 

GDiaz

Member
Location
Pittsburgh
I agree and disagree

I agree and disagree

Yes simple and reliable systems are always the way to go - UNLESS the increase in usability is worth the increase in complexity. Usability being its' effectiveness, efficiency and satisfaction.

2 years ago I gave up my 1940s toaster when the element finally shorted. Sure I could have fixed it but it didn't do bagels well, required constant attention and is a bit of a burn/shock hazard. The new toaster is exponentially more complex but not a burn/shock hazard, does bagels well and everyone loves it - I'm sure it will not last 50 years - but neither will I.

To this day the only can opener in my house is a P-38 - because it works faster than anything on the market and when I get to weak to use it, I'll move up to a P-51.

As for switches nothing is more reliable than a porcelain based knife switch - but is a bit of a shock hazard. Immune to RF, transients, and more reliable than any rocker switch. Plus it is 100% serviceable.

Based on what I've read I'm guessing most of you still have wired home phones - I gave that up in 1998. Why because I've carried a cell phone since 1990. Sure in 1998 if I called 911 from a cell phone they couldn't see my address but I could call from outside my burning home. Today if you call 911 from any phone they put you on hold.

So in this case yes I'm adding complexity to light switching system but adding occupancy sensor, home intercom, the ability to see every exterior camera including front door, and being able to adjust the thermostat in every room.

Is wireless reliable? We all define reliable differently some think cable TV is reliable. Some satellite and some Fios. However we all know RF TV is the most reliable but has a limited range and quality - usability. I have no issues with WiFi since 1990 and recently moved up to 802.11ac without a single issue. Yes I agree there is a lot of crap on the market but its also extremely easy to purchase, test and switch until you find a good source. Today my WiFi brand is ASUS - really a computer with a radio - oldest component in service since 1999.

I have no expectations that I will sway any opinion here - but compare the complexity of a hard wired system to add intercom, switch, thermostat, camera monitor and Occ sensor to every room. I remember years ago a company was selling a multi-conductor cable to do most of that it was crazy expensive - are they still in business?

In any case I guess it comes down to whatever you feel comfortable with - I am very comfortable with computers, networks and RF connections. The house I'm building is for me and mine it will never be for sale while I'm still kicking.
After that I don't care if they give the house away.

Finally based on all the constructive input I see I have two options a switch bank by the breaker panel or a closet location switch.
 

PHL

Member
Location
Minneapolis, MN
There are many different options to meet your needs. The question is, do you want to have a light switch that controls a light to be visible in that room? I prefer to have the light switch where it has always been in rooms. Then I device each wall box with a dimmer or switch that can be controlled remotely via 5 button key-pads, in-wall touch screen, hand held remote, IR command, RS-232, or mobile control. The in-wall device is the master control in this scenario and can over ride all other controllers.

The Master is what provides the 120v switching to the lighting fixture. It is important to find a product that will work with the types of lighting that you wish to control INC,MLV,ELV. Three way switching uses a Remote device to send wireless communication to the master. The wiring method utilized here is standard NEC wiring for a home. The devices all require a Hot, Neutral, Ground to broadcast and receive communication.

As mentioned in previous post wireless load control devices mounted in ceiling boxes can be problematic when repairs or maintenance is being preformed. In wireless lighting there must be a device to De-energize the load side of the device for maintenance. If your load control is installed at the fixture box you may not meet code for accessibility or the device may not have what I call an "Air-Gap" switch. The wireless lighting devices require a load to be installed for proper operation.

Wireless Load control for wall box outlets is currently available in the market place. You can control multiple outlet devices from any master or remote control platform. I prefer a outlet module that the lamp plugs in to. This allows for dimming on that module which can be controlled from the previous listed. Then a bedroom can have two table lamps that can be dimmed from one wall box device next to the door or from an app individually. Modules can then be moved to any outlet in seconds.

"must I install hard wired manual switches between the panel and the lighting outlets"
Certain areas of the home require a light that is controlled manually from that room. The best option is to ask your local inspector what he would like to see.

Intercom, music systems, thermostat's and IP cameras are also an option for home automation. These are components that integrate to which ever system is the main control.

WiFi is a shared bandwidth, the more clients on the network the slower the network. One solution is to install multiple WAP's (wireless access point) each which is wired back to a main switch connected to the LAN. Wireless lighting devices utilize a private RF for inter device communication, a main HUB connects the Lighting RF to the home WiFi. Repeaters can be used to connect devices over 100ft in distance away. This private RF allows faster WiFi speeds.

These devices can be from a trustworthy company that will maintain production of devices to be future compatible with new devices. The company I prefer produces new product that can be seamlessly integrated to existing systems as replacement is needed.
 
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