AFCI in Laundry Room (2011 WI)

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I-man

Member
Location
Wisconsin
Is the laundry room circuit required to be AFCI protected? I have it GFCI protected on it's own circuit. An inspector is requiring it.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
What code cycle are you on.

Not required per 2011 NEC for either GFCI or AFCI.

I'd ask for a code citation.

But then again is this inspector the kind that will hang you on your next job.
 

I-man

Member
Location
Wisconsin
2011 code cycle.

The inspector seams good I think he is reading up on 2014 and is confused. He told the home owner it is something new but Wisconsin didn't accept the new code.

I have it GFCI protected because there is a sink in there. (protected 6ft from sink edge)
 
Just had an inspection done on a re-wire of a house here in Manitowoc WI and yes the inspector said that the next time I did this the laundry circuit was to be on an arc flash breaker. Like was mentioned, a laundry room is a "similar" room. Like you I put a GFI outlet in.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If the laundry area is already a "similar room" in the 2011 NEC then would they need to add it to the list of rooms in the 2014?
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
If the laundry area is already a "similar room" in the 2011 NEC then would they need to add it to the list of rooms in the 2014?

It's a statewide interpretation from the Department of Safety and Professional Services.

To clarify the requirment and avoid confusion.



This so called interpretation is written somewhere and legally adopted?
I'd like to see the basis for this definition.
The CMP has refused to make a blanket definition of rooms or spaces and continually left rooms out of the requirements.
I hate to see other jurisdictions make such arbitrary interpretations or " because we say so" as it always filters around the country some way.

To claim that a laundry area is a " similar area or room " is incorrect and has no foundation or basis.
To claim that laundry is similar we must look at what makes it appear similar or unique. Those similarities cannot be the same things that make up a building , such as floor, walls , and ceilings. Has a door or maybe two. Including all areas and rooms would make the whole home AFCI and that has not been done YET.

So what makes a laundry room unique.
To me that is simple, it is where you clean your laundry. Maybe you store things there. Wash up, things of that nature.

You don't sleep there or prepare food.
You do not eat and entertain there.
For someone to claim it as similar has too much power.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
You seem very up in arms about something that the NEC left up to the local AHJ to decide.

Same as 'nearest the point of entrance' every AHJ makes there own call on that. From zero feet of service conductor inside to 50' of service conductor inside.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
You seem very up in arms about something that the NEC left up to the local AHJ to decide.

Same as 'nearest the point of entrance' every AHJ makes there own call on that. From zero feet of service conductor inside to 50' of service conductor inside.

That is an opinion, not a fact.

Really .... what is the basis for claiming a laundry room as "Similar"

Where do you claim that the CMP deliberately left it up to the AHJ.
An AHJ must have basis for their claim other than " I said SO"

Otherwise we need to throw away the code books and the whole code making process.
 

packersparky

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
Inspector
Really .... what is the basis for claiming a laundry room as "Similar"

Where do you claim that the CMP deliberately left it up to the AHJ.
An AHJ must have basis for their claim other than " I said SO"

Otherwise we need to throw away the code books and the whole code making process.

The CMP left it up to the AHJ when they added the words "similar room or area" to 210.12(A).


It's an interpretion issue the same way each AHJ interprets what "subject to physical damage" means differently.
 
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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
The CMP left it up to the AHJ when they added the words "similar room or area" to 210.12(A).


It's an interpretion issue the same way each AHJ interprets what "subject to physical damage" means differently.

Love how you folks put words in the CMP voice. The CMP point of view is very different.
The CMP never used "similar rooms" for that purpose.

Someone recently stated that a clothes closet in a bedroom is similar to a garage and that a garage be AFCI'd

Come on people. Where does this nonsense end.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Really .... what is the basis for claiming a laundry room as "Similar"

It has four walls and a ceiling, if the AHJ wants to use that as the basis for similar that is within their authority.

It is not up to you or me to make that call

You clearly have an opinon of what similar means and that is fine but the AHJ can have another view and it is up to them.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
It has four walls and a ceiling, if the AHJ wants to use that as the basis for similar that is within their authority.

It is not up to you or me to make that call

You clearly have an opinon of what similar means and that is fine but the AHJ can have another view and it is up to them.

The way I look at it and many others as well, is that there must be a basis for such a claim. Your analogy would make every room and space need to have AFCI. We have laws. We have a procedure. What we should not have is " because I said so" .

People need to stand up for this garbage.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
It has four walls and a ceiling, if the AHJ wants to use that as the basis for similar that is within their authority.

It is not up to you or me to make that call

You clearly have an opinon of what similar means and that is fine but the AHJ can have another view and it is up to them.

You are claiming to know what the CMP meant. You don't.

All we know is they left it vague and up to local interpretation.

CMP left it vague, Huh.


So how do you explain that in another post regarding State adoption of the 2014 and their amendments . South Carolina removed the word "kitchen" though left similar rooms. These words are deliberate. If the SC AHJ thought that it was in fact vague they need not have changed a word.
Please tell me how you jump from similar room to laundry.
 

juz720

Member
Location
Sumter SC
This so called interpretation is written somewhere and legally adopted?
I'd like to see the basis for this definition.
The CMP has refused to make a blanket definition of rooms or spaces and continually left rooms out of the requirements.
I hate to see other jurisdictions make such arbitrary interpretations or " because we say so" as it always filters around the country some way.

To claim that a laundry area is a " similar area or room " is incorrect and has no foundation or basis.
To claim that laundry is similar we must look at what makes it appear similar or unique. Those similarities cannot be the same things that make up a building , such as floor, walls , and ceilings. Has a door or maybe two. Including all areas and rooms would make the whole home AFCI and that has not been done YET.

So what makes a laundry room unique.
To me that is simple, it is where you clean your laundry. Maybe you store things there. Wash up, things of that nature.

You don't sleep there or prepare food.
You do not eat and entertain there.
For someone to claim it as similar has too much power.
Couldn't agree with you
more on that statement!! ?

Sent from my LGLS665 using Tapatalk
 
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