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Thread: replacing ceiling light with paddle fan - AFCI required?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarroll View Post
    Changing a standard light box to a fan rated box in NO way alters or extends the circuit.
    Same goes for changing the luminaire to fan/light.
    Does it change the outlet, which is somewhat of an invisible point at times?

    I lean towards no, but will not claim it is definite no either because of the blurred line of where an outlet actually is at times.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Does it change the outlet, which is somewhat of an invisible point at times?

    I lean towards no, but will not claim it is definite no either because of the blurred line of where an outlet actually is at times.
    IMO, no. As an inspector, I would never make a call like that. To me, in this case, a box is a box.
    Ron

  3. #23
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    "I hold in my hand the hatchet used by George Washington to chop down the cherry tree. Over the years, the handle had rotted and was replaced with a new one, and later on the head rusted and was replaced. But it still occupies the same space in the universe."

    Ask if you were to replace a receptacle, would AFCI protection now be required. Then ask if it was, say, a high-mounted clock receptacle, and you decided to replace it with a switched wall sconce, would an AFCI need to be added. Now, ask if the threaded holes were stripped and you replaced the box with another one, would an AFCI be needed.

    An outlet is not specifically the box (some fluorescent lights are hard-wired, but are still an outlet), nor is the receptacle itself the outlet. The outlet is really the hole in the wall where the wires are accessible. You did not install or create a new outlet.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post

    Ask if you were to replace a receptacle, would AFCI protection now be required. Then ask if it was, say, a high-mounted clock receptacle, and you decided to replace it with a switched wall sconce, would an AFCI need to be added. Now, ask if the threaded holes were stripped and you replaced the box with another one, would an AFCI be needed.

    .
    Per the 2011 NEC 406.4(D) Starting January 1st, 2014, you are required to have AFCI protection for a replaced outlet.
    Your other examples, I agree, no AFCI protection required.
    Ron

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarroll View Post
    Per the 2011 NEC 406.4(D) Starting January 1st, 2014, you are required to have AFCI protection for a replaced outlet.
    Your other examples, I agree, no AFCI protection required.
    There outta be a law!


    What did you think about the hatchet story?
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  6. #26
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    Thanks for the input guys. I'll just wait to hear from the contractor. Fortunately this is not on my dime. I appreciate these, and any other comments.
    Formerly J Erickson as username.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    There outta be a law!


    What did you think about the hatchet story?
    Yes, there outta be a law! No body can argue the point of the hatchet story.
    Ron

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    Thanks for the input guys. I'll just wait to hear from the contractor. Fortunately this is not on my dime. I appreciate these, and any other comments.
    Send the "inspector"? to 210.12(D). Clearly, this is for branch circuit modification, NOT box or fixture replacements.
    Good luck!
    Ron

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFine View Post
    Over the years, the handle had rotted and was replaced with a new one, and later on the head rusted and was replaced. But it still occupies the same space in the universe." You did not install or create a new outlet.
    I would say in your case you definitely modified the hatchet, and, created a new one.

    The OP modified what was attached to the branch circuit and created a new look to it , but , did he actually modify the branch circuit itself ?

    That depends on who you ask, and, that's why your going to get different opinions on what has or has not changed.

    Some might say, "No" because he didn't change any of the wiring itself. Only what was attached to it.
    Some might say, "Yes" he modified the branch circuit because it now has a different amperage draw on it than it did originally, and, regardless of right or wrong, it did change the characteristics of the branch circuit somewhat.

    If I were an inspector I'd let it ride, but, I can also see where some could see it completely different.


    JAP>

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarroll View Post
    Per the 2011 NEC 406.4(D) Starting January 1st, 2014, you are required to have AFCI protection for a replaced outlet.
    Your other examples, I agree, no AFCI protection required.
    What exactly is a “replaced outlet”?

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