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Thread: Circuit Breaker teardown and defective Siemens latching mechanism

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    You provided me all the references. And i dont come actual defects. If there is actual mechanical defects. Then i dont know either also there seems to be other designs with solenoids. I havent seen them and hope i wont as breakers are critical components and better left to the factories But in case you have seen teardown of GFCI breakers. Pls let me know. I dont want to be tempted to teardown a new one just to see how the compnents are put together or layout. Lol

    Sylvania Breaker




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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    You provided me all the references. And i dont come actual defects. If there is actual mechanical defects. Then i dont know either also there seems to be other designs with solenoids. I havent seen them and hope i wont as breakers are critical components and better left to the factories But in case you have seen teardown of GFCI breakers. Pls let me know. I dont want to be tempted to teardown a new one just to see how the compnents are put together or layout. Lol



    AFCI:










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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    You provided me all the references. And i dont come actual defects. If there is actual mechanical defects. Then i dont know either also there seems to be other designs with solenoids. I havent seen them and hope i wont as breakers are critical components and better left to the factories But in case you have seen teardown of GFCI breakers. Pls let me know. I dont want to be tempted to teardown a new one just to see how the compnents are put together or layout. Lol


    IEC breakers tend to have solenoids to help lower the magnetic trip threshold. At 230 volt line to ground its a good idea to have a quick disconnect time when a fault occurs.














    Here is a QO GFCI:



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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrooke View Post
    IEC breakers tend to have solenoids to help lower the magnetic trip threshold. At 230 volt line to ground its a good idea to have a quick disconnect time when a fault occurs.














    Here is a QO GFCI:


    Thanks so much for the references esp the GFCI breakers. I have been looking for them the past 4 months. If you know how the Siemens Gfci looks inside. Pls share. I used to suspect if i had counterfeit gfci breakers. I heard there are several hundred thousand counterfeit breakers..i wonder if there are counterfeit gfci breakers too. Im tempted to fry open my 60A siemens breakers. Its being sold cheap at amazon compared to their 30A siemens gfci breakers. Also remember the new self test versions have extra chip. I wonder how they could fit it all inside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    Thanks so much for the references esp the GFCI breakers. I have been looking for them the past 4 months. If you know how the Siemens Gfci looks inside. Pls share. I used to suspect if i had counterfeit gfci breakers. I heard there are several hundred thousand counterfeit breakers..i wonder if there are counterfeit gfci breakers too. Im tempted to fry open my 60A siemens breakers. Its being sold cheap at amazon compared to their 30A siemens gfci breakers.
    Unfortunately I do not, but imagine the construction is similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    Fascinating. Even if you cannot officially return for warranty replacement, I am sure there are engineers in the company who would love to take a look at that breaker.
    I think he can return it, it just so happens in his circumstances it will cost him as much or more to do so than simply buying a replacement.

    Could easily be one component is defective and was not rejected by QC, might not even be an issue with an entire run of product, just that one individual piece had a defect.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrooke View Post
    Unfortunately I do not, but imagine the construction is similar.
    Mbrooke. Do you know the internals of the General Electrical
    TQD22150

    https://www.amazon.com/General-Elect.../dp/B00ECKRIYK



    Before my family got the townhouse in the 5 house compound. The breakers outside were already opened to the elements.. meaning when it rains hard, all the breakers get wet.




    Can rain get inside the breakers? Are the plastic casing of most breakers waterproof? Because if the inside thermal and magnetic strips were already rusted. Maybe they won't function anymore and the breakers won't trip at all?

    I want to see behaviors of breakers constantly exposed to rain (worse case scenario). How would the inside look like. Rusty?

    To replace the breakers above. All 5 house owners must cooperate and need signatures to apply for electrical permit and power interruption to replace them. But most won't cooperate and spend money to buy new one and don't mind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    Mbrooke. Do you know the internals of the General Electrical
    TQD22150

    https://www.amazon.com/General-Elect.../dp/B00ECKRIYK



    Before my family got the townhouse in the 5 house compound. The breakers outside were already opened to the elements.. meaning when it rains hard, all the breakers get wet.




    Can rain get inside the breakers? Are the plastic casing of most breakers waterproof? Because if the inside thermal and magnetic strips were already rusted. Maybe they won't function anymore and the breakers won't trip at all?

    I want to see behaviors of breakers constantly exposed to rain (worse case scenario). How would the inside look like. Rusty?

    To replace the breakers above. All 5 house owners must cooperate and need signatures to apply for electrical permit and power interruption to replace them. But most won't cooperate and spend money to buy new one and don't mind it.



    Oh, this is easy! UL did a residential aging report, and the majority of the breakers that failed to trip where outdoors (in a rain proof enclosure)- I can only imagine here where they are actually being rained on.


    I do not know the internals, but it would not shock me if they have all seized up considering the above is a code violation. Breakers must be protected from water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrooke View Post
    Oh, this is easy! UL did a residential aging report, and the majority of the breakers that failed to trip where outdoors (in a rain proof enclosure)- I can only imagine here where they are actually being rained on.


    I do not know the internals, but it would not shock me if they have all seized up considering the above is a code violation. Breakers must be protected from water.

    Ok. Thanks for the info. Need to convince the neighbors. Lol.

    Well. I'm presently studying about arc flash. How many current in a wire before it can become explosive enough to injure the electrician?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hpE5LYj-CY

    Once I saw an electrician trying to connect a breaker live. Although there is no direct connection between two terminals. There are carbon sooths, and this created a small arc flash enough to injure him. After that. I won't even go near an electrician when he fixed stuff. And also staying from the electronic or electrical engineering field as it's very dangerous field.

    In the Philippines where electricians don't have to worry about neutral and grounding, but just able to connect the red and black wires without even polarity. Many of them are doing it live (only skill they can boost that cut them above ordinary folks). I know this is very dangerous. Many of them don't even know what is arc flash.

    I want to share them this so they be more careful. In a basic home panel. What usually is the current before the arc flash can occur similar or even half the video (above) intensity?

    And if AFCI are installed. Can it totally prevent it or just diminish the intensity (by how many percentage)?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    Ok. Thanks for the info. Need to convince the neighbors. Lol.

    Well. I'm presently studying about arc flash. How many current in a wire before it can become explosive enough to injure the electrician?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hpE5LYj-CY

    Once I saw an electrician trying to connect a breaker live. Although there is no direct connection between two terminals. There are carbon sooths, and this created a small arc flash enough to injure him. After that. I won't even go near an electrician when he fixed stuff. And also staying from the electronic or electrical engineering field as it's very dangerous field.

    In the Philippines where electricians don't have to worry about neutral and grounding, but just able to connect the red and black wires without even polarity. Many of them are doing it live (only skill they can boost that cut them above ordinary folks). I know this is very dangerous. Many of them don't even know what is arc flash.

    I want to share them this so they be more careful. In a basic home panel. What usually is the current before the arc flash can occur similar or even half the video (above) intensity?

    And if AFCI are installed. Can it totally prevent it or just diminish the intensity (by how many percentage)?



    Honestly, I am not well versed in arc flash. I have the blessing of thinking about open air buswork 20 or more feet in the air where the blast is not all the bad from the ground and clears within 5-15 cycles.

    However, there are experts here on Holt which can tell you EVERYTHING from the science down to the PPE.

    BTW, an AFCI may not do much. AFCI breakers are very much in their infancy truth be told.


    Having an instantaneous function like magnetic trip or GFP helps, but again, I am no expert.

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