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Thread: Circuit Breaker teardown and defective Siemens latching mechanism

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    Then I will need to apply at city hall for main breaker.
    Actually, i found fused disco's w/RK5 fuses much more 'bang for the buck' Tersh....

    ~RJ~

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrooke View Post
    BTW, that service neutral wire might be undersized... but close enough.
    From looks of many of the pictures he has posted (not just in this thread) he is lucky to even have any grounded conductor at all. And some of the code you have mentioned recently is at the bottom of the list priority wise of things to bring up to NEC standards IMO. I'd rather overlook 10 service disconnecting means remaining left in place if they would just figure out the concept of equipment grounding.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    From looks of many of the pictures he has posted (not just in this thread) he is lucky to even have any grounded conductor at all. And some of the code you have mentioned recently is at the bottom of the list priority wise of things to bring up to NEC standards IMO. I'd rather overlook 10 service disconnecting means remaining left in place if they would just figure out the concept of equipment grounding.
    It depends on what architectural firm you go to which has it's own team of electrical, sanitary, mechanical plans consultants. We pay the architects lots of money.

    Then it depends on what kinds of contractors you go to.

    I happened to get the best architectural firm in the country for the office building. The contractors were chosen by the architectural firm.. so at the minimum. They need to follow the electrical plans with 3-wire detail.

    For the house which doesn't have any ground wire, and most homes in the country. They were built by developers who cut corners in many areas like saving ground wires. This explains why most homes don't have any ground wires. Also because city hall is not strict with residential electrical plan and permit. But they are very strict with office and commercial buildings hence you can see third wire in most of those buildings. Unfortunately our appliances don't have any EGC. They don't make use of it. So for buildings with grounding conductors, it's just there for display and to pass inspections since no appliances have EGC except external condensers, but the installers don't connect any PE because they don't know the purpose of it.

    But without EGC. We don't have a lot of electrocutions. This is because we have zero DIY here. And all our appliances have double insulations. I haven't encountered anyone who knows someone who got electrocuted.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by tersh View Post
    It depends on what architectural firm you go to which has it's own team of electrical, sanitary, mechanical plans consultants. We pay the architects lots of money.

    Then it depends on what kinds of contractors you go to.

    I happened to get the best architectural firm in the country for the office building. The contractors were chosen by the architectural firm.. so at the minimum. They need to follow the electrical plans with 3-wire detail.

    For the house which doesn't have any ground wire, and most homes in the country. They were built by developers who cut corners in many areas like saving ground wires. This explains why most homes don't have any ground wires. Also because city hall is not strict with residential electrical plan and permit. But they are very strict with office and commercial buildings hence you can see third wire in most of those buildings. Unfortunately our appliances don't have any EGC. They don't make use of it. So for buildings with grounding conductors, it's just there for display and to pass inspections since no appliances have EGC except external condensers, but the installers don't connect any PE because they don't know the purpose of it.

    But without EGC. We don't have a lot of electrocutions. This is because we have zero DIY here. And all our appliances have double insulations. I haven't encountered anyone who knows someone who got electrocuted.
    There is still a lot of old non grounding type receptacles here in the US that haven't killed anyone yet also. That just means the right circumstances never came up for that to happen. In typical dwelling living, room bedroom and similar areas, there often is little or no grounded objects to come into contact with (that aren't grounded via modern electrical system anyway). Floors and walls are typically non conductive and don't complicate this, so even if you are holding onto a tool or appliance that has it's metal case energized, you need to have another difference of potential to be able to touch before you will be shocked.

    This changes when you get in typical unfinished basements, garages, kitchens, bathrooms and other places that do have grounded objects around and was a major factor in the development and implementation of GFCI's.

    Over the years the places where GFCI's have been required maybe doesn't involve situations where there have been many elecrocutions, but still based on what is seen as higher risk. I still don't totally agree with some of the places where they are required as I don't believe the risk is high enough to justify, that is a whole other subject though to go into some of that detail.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  5. #245
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    I found a US 2 pole GFCI example- this one is for a pool:




  6. #246
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    Siemens Main Breaker

    YOUR BREAKER IS SIMPLY DEFECTIVE, Having been in the Circuit Breaker industry for over 30 years, there is no question. You should have to put almost as much pressure to turn it of as you do to turn it on.
    Internally there is a latching mechanism and it is not fully holding the hook correctly. Since you breaker is new, you should be able to return it to the distributor you purchased it from. If it was from Amazon or E-bay, there are strict policies to have your return accepted.

    Here is a trick that may help. Doing this may loosen the pivot points on the latch.
    With the circuit breaker in the on position, slap the side on a table hard but not enough to damage it. It may turn off by itself. This sometimes will help for the circuit breaker to latch properly.

    Attachment 22202

    Attachment 22203

    In this video. If I don't lock the on position by pushing it down, it won't lock.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTo2acI93XM

    Here I locked it in position and it stays on. In the third attempt. I didn't push it in so it returned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCqGNRzIMO0

    Has anyone tried any Siemens main panel breaker used the PL series? Could it somehow be normal (or just tolerance issue)? Using the Westinghouse breaker teardown. I couldn't extrapolate what is wrong with the Siemens.

    I couldn't return the item. It costs $45. And a new one cost $85 shipped. So I need to know if what could possibly be wrong with the Siemens. Doesn't it use a standard latching mechanism? Any illustration of what mechanism it could be using?[/QUOTE]

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlelectric View Post
    YOUR BREAKER IS SIMPLY DEFECTIVE,
    I tried to tell him that over 100 pages back but the rock in front of my house listens better than he does.

    -Hal

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    I tried to tell him that over 100 pages back but the rock in front of my house listens better than he does.

    -Hal

    Hey, I learned a lot in this thread.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    Fascinating. Even if you cannot officially return for warranty replacement, I am sure there are engineers in the company who would love to take a look at that breaker.
    Likely not. If it falls into the std fail #'s then nobody cares. I had found faulty smoke detectors from a popular maker years ago. I kept sending them back to maker with request to fix the issue. After about the 5th one I sent letter to NFPA notifying them of my findings. I never did receive any reply but by about the 10th detector being sent back to me as a replacement the issue stopped. The only chronological record I have for the fix is the mfgr date they put on the detectors. Most of my home detectors have a 2018 mfgr date on them (this house is 11yrs old). I use the tri model smoke/heat/gas.

    I have sent back to GE a few times some of their LED bulbs. Junk crap made in China. My note basically said "these bulbs all failed in less than 100hrs of on time. stop selling junk like this". GE does not care, they likely just bought a batch of bulbs engineered by someone else and had their logo ink stamped on the side. I did not ask for replacements because I did not want to be doing replacements over and over and over again. Its like one of those long term car warranties, its all good if you dont mind leaving your car in the shop over and over again.
    Last edited by FionaZuppa; 05-18-19 at 09:42 AM.

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