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Thread: How to prove a pool is bonded and grounded after the fact?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kec View Post
    Had a inspector in town yrs ago who said he didn't see the rebar in the gunite pour of inground pool. He told contractor to chop it up. Contractor then proceeded to punch out the inspector. Hope this doesn't come to this.

    There must be the #8 wire showing back at pool filter if he did it right.
    Has the contractor gotten out of the big house yet?


    I was on a job where a concrete slab for 10 ICU rooms was removed because the ornery old GC superintendent didn't have a slab inspection.

    Roger
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    Has the contractor gotten out of the big house yet?


    I was on a job where a concrete slab for 10 ICU rooms was removed because the ornery old GC superintendent didn't have a slab inspection.

    Roger
    wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?
    Bob

  3. #13
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    how far from the water edge is the bonding ring, how deep

    are the lugs tight

    are they installed correctly

    was the wire mesh bonded if so did they bond with a split bolt metal wire mesh (steel), or did the use a split bolt with a dividing plate (bi- metal )

    was the wet nitch bonded

    and so on

  4. #14
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    Here in NJ commercial pools are required to having their bonding systems tested every 5 years. As Bob stated some may pass even without the currently required equipotential bonding systems. If they do pass are they any less safe?

    The required bonding and grounding certificate must verify the continuity and integrity of the bonding and grounding system of the pool. The electrical certificate of compliance must verify that all wiring located in or about the pool pump and associated electrical equipment complies with the electrical subcode.
    I agree that the OP needs to let the contractor worry about getting the issue resolved which should involve chopping it all up and doing it over.
    Rob

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    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?
    A run of the mill pool deck is far more of an electrocution hazard than a ICU slab.

    Roger
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?
    Quote Originally Posted by roger View Post
    A run of the mill pool deck is far more of an electrocution hazard than a ICU slab.

    Roger
    I was going to say something similar. That ICU slab probably gets insulating floor covering/coating over it, plus care providers that contact the patient likely have additional insulation in their footwear. ICU patient likely doesn't get out of the bed on their own either so their contact with the floor is almost never. The pool concrete has constant contact with water and pool users are immersed in the water as well.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  7. #17
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    Also just because it passes a continuity test doesn’t mean that they installed the wire to the rebar or grid correctly. Twisting the wire around the rebar it would still test fine. How does the inspector know you used listed and labeled fittings?


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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    wow. I can kind of understand it for a hospital but a run of the mill pool?

    No such thing.
    We, pool contractors, have a great responsibility in this aspect.

    As stated, NJ public pools require bond testing every 3 years. Perhaps residential pools should be required.

    Mike Holt for instance, in one his videos, would not put lights in his own pool. That's how delicate this part of a pool is.

    My wife is a mobile horse vet traveling barn to barn. I have a concern for her in stables where the concrete floors can become energized and horses "dance" around when getting washed down or drink from the automatic water dispensers-all noted on previous posts on this forum.

    She has not witnessed this, but this great forum has informed me of such instances, and I just make her aware of her surroundings.

    Pool patios I'm sure too can become energized if improperly/not bonded.

    Water and electricity mixing are not be taken lightly.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Pools View Post
    No such thing.
    We, pool contractors, have a great responsibility in this aspect.

    As stated, NJ public pools require bond testing every 3 years. Perhaps residential pools should be required.

    Mike Holt for instance, in one his videos, would not put lights in his own pool. That's how delicate this part of a pool is.

    My wife is a mobile horse vet traveling barn to barn. I have a concern for her in stables where the concrete floors can become energized and horses "dance" around when getting washed down or drink from the automatic water dispensers-all noted on previous posts on this forum.

    She has not witnessed this, but this great forum has informed me of such instances, and I just make her aware of her surroundings.

    Pool patios I'm sure too can become energized if improperly/not bonded.

    Water and electricity mixing are not be taken lightly.
    I wouldn't put lights in my own pool either, seems like completely unnecessary risk. Pumps and heaters are more of a necessity, but at least are not right in the user vicinity. Bonding everything still sounds like a good idea even if nothing associated with the pool is electric powered.

    Been around livestock, of course horses are a little different to the owner than most other animals - they are more of a pet than an asset, but are still subjected to similar voltage sensitivity as many other critters of similar size and build.

    Cattle in a feedyard, seen them get electrocuted a time or two. Owner takes the loss on that one critter, fixes the fault and moves on. This kind of incident isn't too common, often the cow was already at the watering trough when the fault happened and gets killed immediately. If the trough were energized with no cattle at it, they typically will feel something as they approach because of how long of a base they have between front and back legs they will span over more voltage gradient than a human would, plus they don't wear any shoes that add to insulating them from the ground. When they feel that voltage they typically just stay away, farmer/rancher will notice they aren't drinking and then discover the tank is live.

    Pigs however have too much curiosity. You find one dead at the water tank and chances are better there will be others that want to check things out and end up with even more dead. Not many pigs around here are in unheated space anymore, so the need to electrify a water tank to prevent freezing is not what it used to be in swine operations.

    Cattle also get zapped by an electric fence once and tend to just stay away afterward. A pig will keep coming back to test it, curiosity the main reason.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I wouldn't put lights in my own pool either, seems like completely unnecessary risk. Pumps and heaters are more of a necessity, but at least are not right in the user vicinity. Bonding everything still sounds like a good idea even if nothing associated with the pool is electric powered.

    Been around livestock, of course horses are a little different to the owner than most other animals - they are more of a pet than an asset, but are still subjected to similar voltage sensitivity as many other critters of similar size and build.

    Cattle in a feedyard, seen them get electrocuted a time or two. Owner takes the loss on that one critter, fixes the fault and moves on. This kind of incident isn't too common, often the cow was already at the watering trough when the fault happened and gets killed immediately. If the trough were energized with no cattle at it, they typically will feel something as they approach because of how long of a base they have between front and back legs they will span over more voltage gradient than a human would, plus they don't wear any shoes that add to insulating them from the ground. When they feel that voltage they typically just stay away, farmer/rancher will notice they aren't drinking and then discover the tank is live.

    Pigs however have too much curiosity. You find one dead at the water tank and chances are better there will be others that want to check things out and end up with even more dead. Not many pigs around here are in unheated space anymore, so the need to electrify a water tank to prevent freezing is not what it used to be in swine operations.

    Cattle also get zapped by an electric fence once and tend to just stay away afterward. A pig will keep coming back to test it, curiosity the main reason.

    Agreed. Bonding everything is good practice.

    Yes, animals are expendable. People are not.

    I only mention about the possibility of a barn/stall floor possibly getting energized as an inspector about 10 years told me of this exact situation first hand.
    If handlers/trainers/farmers can recognize this at their own facility with their animals, then they can protect themselves and others first and foremost, and then protect the animals.

    If a few curious pigs get zapped, so be it. More chops and bacon on my plate. :D

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