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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Are you required by NEC to provide ground fault protection to a dental chair
As a general rule I don't think so.

If it were supplied by a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacle and it were in a location requiring GFCI protection then the receptacle requires protection not the chair per NEC.
 

darekelec

Senior Member
Location
nyc
There is a tiny faucet and a tiny drain at the dentist chair to flush ones mouth. Would that be considered as a sink ?


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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
But unless there is something in 517 I am not aware of or instructions for the chair requiring GFCI, the only general requirement in 210.8 would require GFCI protection for 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles within 6 feet of said sink. If the chair plugs into such a receptacle then it would of course be protected.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
There is a tiny faucet and a tiny drain at the dentist chair to flush ones mouth. Would that be considered as a sink ?
I think not. The "6' from sink" rule is based on most portable tools and appliances having 6' long cords. The hazard comes from dropping such an item into a sink full of water. This concept would not apply to a dentists chair.

 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
I think not. The "6' from sink" rule is based on most portable tools and appliances having 6' long cords. The hazard comes from dropping such an item into a sink full of water. This concept would not apply to a dentists chair.


I thought the 6 foot rule was that most adults have about a 6 foot wingspan. If most cords are 6' maybe the rule should be 12 feet?
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I thought the 6 foot rule was that most adults have about a 6 foot wingspan. If most cords are 6' maybe the rule should be 12 feet?

Being able to reach the water with a faulty device in your hand is not the hazard. The hazard is the faulty device itself.


JAP>
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Being able to reach the water with a faulty device in your hand is not the hazard. The hazard is the faulty device itself.
Then why is there a requirement that any receptacle within 6' of a sink have GFCI protection? I think it is because you might drop a non-faulty device into the sink.

 

jumper

Senior Member
I think not. The "6' from sink" rule is based on most portable tools and appliances having 6' long cords. The hazard comes from dropping such an item into a sink full of water. This concept would not apply to a dentists chair.


Then why is there a requirement that any receptacle within 6' of a sink have GFCI protection? I think it is because you might drop a non-faulty device into the sink.


Your opinions are reasonable, but I disagree.:)

The rule simply states receptacles within 6' of a sink require GFCI protection, why is irrelevant, and if the chair has a sink then a receptacle within 6' needs GFCI protection.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Then why is there a requirement that any receptacle within 6' of a sink have GFCI protection? I think it is because you might drop a non-faulty device into the sink.


And what happens when you drop a non-faulty device into the sink ?


JAP>
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
But just because something falls in the sink doesn't mean it automatically becomes faulty.

JAP>
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
But if the GFI happens not to trip what difference would it make if we were to extend the boundary to 12' instead of 6' ?

JAP>
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
The ones I've seen sure look like sinks to me. Valve, faucet, water comes in, goes into drain? What else would it be?
There is no valve, and there is no faucet. There is a tube through which water flows into the spit bowl.
. . . if the sink has standing water in it.
And exactly how is the spit bowl that is attached to the dental chair going to have standing water? If it were to clog up somehow, the dental hygienist would turn it off and ask you to get out of the chair before the bowl overflows onto your shirt.

The dental chair is listed as a complete assembly. We don't get to isolate parts of it and apply the NEC rules to those parts. I'll continue to submit that that spit bowl thing is not a sink, in the context of the NEC rule concerting GFCI protection for receptacles.



 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There is no valve, and there is no faucet. There is a tube through which water flows into the spit bowl.
And exactly how is the spit bowl that is attached to the dental chair going to have standing water? If it were to clog up somehow, the dental hygienist would turn it off and ask you to get out of the chair before the bowl overflows onto your shirt.

The dental chair is listed as a complete assembly. We don't get to isolate parts of it and apply the NEC rules to those parts. I'll continue to submit that that spit bowl thing is not a sink, in the context of the NEC rule concerting GFCI protection for receptacles.



Me not know. I haven't been to dentist a lot, but also never had to spit in a bowl or sink, they always had used suction to extract whatever may need removed.
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
There is no valve, and there is no faucet. There is a tube through which water flows into the spit bowl.
And exactly how is the spit bowl that is attached to the dental chair going to have standing water? If it were to clog up somehow, the dental hygienist would turn it off and ask you to get out of the chair before the bowl overflows onto your shirt.

The dental chair is listed as a complete assembly. We don't get to isolate parts of it and apply the NEC rules to those parts. I'll continue to submit that that spit bowl thing is not a sink, in the context of the NEC rule concerting GFCI protection for receptacles.




I've never seen a "spit sink" without a mechanical or electrically actuated valve. I've never seen a water fountain (as in drinking) that was expected to have standing water in it, but a GFCI is required.

Water does not lose its conductivity by the virtue of being in a listed assembly.
 
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