Rubber Cord Ampacity

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don_resqcapt19

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Yes but I thought you were saying I could not use a 250 amp or even a 225 amp overcurrent protective device even at 75C
If the size of the conductor that you want to use on those devices is smaller than what would be required by T310.15(B)(16) you can't.
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
Common application;

4/0 type W rated 90°C T400.5(A)(2) tells me 405A
J-series Cam-Lok rated 400A continuous @ 105°C on both ends of cable

I'm going to (and have) use 4 sets for a 1200A temp genny set up.


Since those connectors are listed for use with portable power cable and have a 105c rating, I think we are talking apples and oranges. At 1st glance, it complies with 110.14(C), so the use of the Tables in chapter 400 is allowed. JMO
 

don_resqcapt19

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Since those connectors are listed for use with portable power cable and have a 105c rating, I think we are talking apples and oranges. At 1st glance, it complies with 110.14(C), so the use of the Tables in chapter 400 is allowed. JMO
Unless the equipment is listed and marked for use at ampacities other than the ones in T310.15(B)(16), I see it as a violation. 110.14(C)(1).
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
Unless the equipment is listed and marked for use at ampacities other than the ones in T310.15(B)(16), I see it as a violation. 110.14(C)(1).

Which equipment are you thinking? I was thinking the plug on the cord. It seems to be listed for use with portable power cable, IDK if it is marked. Does the plug fall under the definition of equipment?
 

don_resqcapt19

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Which equipment are you thinking? I was thinking the plug on the cord. It seems to be listed for use with portable power cable, IDK if it is marked. Does the plug fall under the definition of equipment?
Just about everything is equipment.
Equipment. A general term, including fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, machinery, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
So, yes the plug is equipment.
If the plug is marked for use with a conductor that has a higher ampacity than shown in T310.15(B)(16) you can use it...otherwise you are limited to conductor sizing based on T310.16(B)(16).

Is there a specific marking on the plug that shows the plug is suitable for use with conductors that have a higher ampacity than the ampacities shown in T310.15(B)(16)? If not, it is my opinion that you are limited to conductors based on the T310/15(B)(16) ampacities.
...Unless the equipment is listed and marked otherwise, conductor ampacities used in determining equipment termination provisions shall be based on Table 310.15(B)(16) as appropriately modified by 310.15(B)(7).
 

don_resqcapt19

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Don, do you consider methods of splicing conductors, such as wirenuts or polaris connectors, "equipment"?

Cheers, Wayne
I can't think of anything in an electrical installation that does not fall under the definition of equipment as found in Article 100.
 

wwhitney

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I can't think of anything in an electrical installation that does not fall under the definition of equipment as found in Article 100.
Article 110 many times uses the phrases "conductors and/or equipment". So either the article writers are being redundant, or conductors are not equipment. The latter interpretation makes more sense to me.

I think it is a little unclear if a polaris connector, a wirenut, or a plug is equipment. But supposed such items are equipment, and I have one listed for 90C or 105C operation but not so marked. If I mark it with the listed temperature rating, does that comply with 110.14(C)(1)?

Cheers, Wayne
 

iwire

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Article 110 many times uses the phrases "conductors and/or equipment". So either the article writers are being redundant, or conductors are not equipment. The latter interpretation makes more sense to me.

I think it is a little unclear if a polaris connector, a wirenut, or a plug is equipment. But supposed such items are equipment, and I have one listed for 90C or 105C operation but not so marked. If I mark it with the listed temperature rating, does that comply with 110.14(C)(1)?

Cheers, Wayne

I think it is clear conductors are not equipment

Just as clear is wire connectors are equipment
 

don_resqcapt19

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Article 110 many times uses the phrases "conductors and/or equipment". So either the article writers are being redundant, or conductors are not equipment. The latter interpretation makes more sense to me.

I think it is a little unclear if a polaris connector, a wirenut, or a plug is equipment. But supposed such items are equipment, and I have one listed for 90C or 105C operation but not so marked. If I mark it with the listed temperature rating, does that comply with 110.14(C)(1)?

Cheers, Wayne

In my opinion that is not enough. It must be marked with something that says you can use conductor ampacites other than those found in Table 310.15(B)(16).
 

wwhitney

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In my opinion that is not enough. It must be marked with something that says you can use conductor ampacities other than those found in Table 310.15(B)(16).
If it is marked 105 C, wouldn't that imply the above, since Table 310.15(B)(16) doesn't include a 105 C column?

The thrust of my question was whether the "marking" called for in 110.14(C)(1) could be field applied or had to be factory applied.

As a matter of physics, it would seem that which table should be used for the termination ampacity depends on the conditions of the termination, e.g. in an enclosure or in free air.

Cheers, Wayne
 

don_resqcapt19

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If it is marked 105 C, wouldn't that imply the above, since Table 310.15(B)(16) doesn't include a 105 C column?
The 105°C marking is almost always an additional marking and limited to use within appliances.
The thrust of my question was whether the "marking" called for in 110.14(C)(1) could be field applied or had to be factory applied.
In my opinion the marking must be by the manufacturer.
As a matter of physics, it would seem that which table should be used for the termination ampacity depends on the conditions of the termination, e.g. in an enclosure or in free air.
Cheers, Wayne
But that is not what the code says....you have plenty of time to work a PI up for the 2020 code. They are due the first Friday in November, 2017.
 

wwhitney

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The 105°C marking is almost always an additional marking and limited to use within appliances.
Those J-series Cam-Lok connectors mentioned earlier are rated by the manufacturer for 105C. So suppose they are properly listed and are marked "105C" by the manufacturer. Does that constitute the "listing and marking" required by 110.14(C)(1) to be released from the Table 310.15(B)(16) ampacities? (Because Table 310.15(B)(16) has no 105C column). In which case they could be used with Type W cable at the article 400 ampacities.

But that is not what the code says
Oh, I agree that what is true physics-wise doesn't change what the code says. But it is interesting to know what makes sense physics-wise and to compare that with the written rules the NEC writers have come up with.

Cheers, Wayne
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
Those J-series Cam-Lok connectors mentioned earlier are rated by the manufacturer for 105C. So suppose they are properly listed and are marked "105C" by the manufacturer. Does that constitute the "listing and marking" required by 110.14(C)(1) to be released from the Table 310.15(B)(16) ampacities? (Because Table 310.15(B)(16) has no 105C column). In which case they could be used with Type W cable at the article 400 ampacities.

That makes sense to me, and if I my vote counted I would vote in the affirmative.
 

don_resqcapt19

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Those J-series Cam-Lok connectors mentioned earlier are rated by the manufacturer for 105C. So suppose they are properly listed and are marked "105C" by the manufacturer. Does that constitute the "listing and marking" required by 110.14(C)(1) to be released from the Table 310.15(B)(16) ampacities? (Because Table 310.15(B)(16) has no 105C column). In which case they could be used with Type W cable at the article 400 ampacities. ...

Cheers, Wayne
In my opinion that marking does not say anything about the ampacity of the conductor, it is just a temperature rating. The code rule says the marking has to say that that the device can be used with conductors having ampacities other than those listed in T310.15(B)(16).
 

wwhitney

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In my opinion that marking does not say anything about the ampacity of the conductor, it is just a temperature rating. The code rule says the marking has to say that that the device can be used with conductors having ampacities other than those listed in T310.15(B)(16).
Lengthy text isn't going to fit on a small product. So you'd like it to have some special symbol that in the manufacturer's literature is explained to mean that the device has been listed for use with conductors having ampacities other than those listed in T310.15(B)(16)?

Cheers, Wayne
 
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