mstrlucky74
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
A 12/3 would indicate a MWBC which would require you to use a 2-pole breaker or two single poles with a handle tie. Might not be the best design option.
In a perfect world without the ridiculous rule for handle ties to protect the unqualified, I would run MWBC's all day long.
And the increased I²R losses for the individual neutrals over the life of the installation.I agree, nothing like wasting copper with individual neutrals. :rant:
In a perfect world without the ridiculous rule for handle ties to protect the unqualified, I would run MWBC's all day long.
When doing repair work or adding circuits in a large panel with multiple conductors run in conduit, how do qualified workers identify MWB?
When doing repair work or adding circuits in a large panel with multiple conductors run in conduit, how do qualified workers identify MWB?
When doing repair work or adding circuits in a large panel with multiple conductors run in conduit, how do qualified workers identify MWB?
You and me both, but the battle is going to be won by the other side. The NEC won't stop dumbing down our trade because it's the only thing the authors have left to do to feel important. I hate 210.4(B) so much that it is one of the few references I know by heart. It's not going away and that is sad on so many levels.Hopefully the original installer paired the neutral off with the phase conductors in accordance with existing NEC rules. Barring that, it would require tracing the circuit.
This is standard electrical work that qualified, competent commercial electricians do every day or every week. I am completely against the continual dumbing down of the trade and rule making to protect the dumb.
You and me both, but the battle is going to be won by the other side. The NEC won't stop dumbing down our trade because it's the only thing the authors have left to do to feel important. I hate 210.4(B) so much that it is one of the few references I know by heart. It's not going away and that is sad on so many levels.
How would this most commonly be wired in the field? Would 12/3 be dropped down the wall and pick up ckt 55 & 57 or 12/2 down to each 55 and 57? Why one way over the other? You would have to splice through with the 12/3 . Thanks
When doing repair work or adding circuits in a large panel with multiple conductors run in conduit, how do qualified workers identify MWB?
I agree. The NEC gets worse every cycle in that regard. The only rule I detest even more than AFCI's is the handle tie rule for MWBC's. That's a blatant capitulation to protecting unqualified people.
And probably within the next twenty years.Unfortunately the reliable and safe Edison circuit will probably end up going the way of the dodo bird.
I can hear the conversation, "You're crazy old man. How do you get three circuits only using four wires? You need six."Probably have apprentices asking here several cycles from now about what a mwbc even is.:happysad:....
If it's cable then you can tell from which wires go into the cable. If not then they are required to be grouped with other means (wire ties or tape). Personally I think the grouping is a heck of a lot more important than the handle-ties; handle ties don't help you identity the neutral.
I agree, nothing like wasting copper with individual neutrals. :rant:
And the increased I²R losses for the individual neutrals over the life of the installation.
Unfortunately the reliable and safe Edison circuit will probably end up going the way of the dodo bird.
Probably have apprentices asking here several cycles from now about what a mwbc even is.:happysad:
I agree w/ Chris1971 about the mwbc and 12/3.