Electric Range Trips breaker once in awhile

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New home construction the builder specified 30 amp circuit for electric cook top so we installed a 10 - 3 romex wire. Upon finish the builder brought in an electric range that has an FLA of 36 amps. So I installed a 35 amp breaker which is obviously pushing the limits past code. The customer has been using the home for a couple of years now and recently the range breaker tripped. Would this be considered a hazard to install a 40 amp breaker on this circuit?
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
New home construction the builder specified 30 amp circuit for electric cook top so we installed a 10 - 3 romex wire. Upon finish the builder brought in an electric range that has an FLA of 36 amps. So I installed a 35 amp breaker which is obviously pushing the limits past code. The customer has been using the home for a couple of years now and recently the range breaker tripped. Would this be considered a hazard to install a 40 amp breaker on this circuit?
Interesting that you are assuming that the breaker is to small without having any idea as to why the breaker is tripping. Is the breaker tripping instantaneously or as a result of an overload thermally. I also noted that #10 has been used to wire the cooktop. Since breakers are normally used to protect wire is #10 sufficient to carry the load per the NEC requirements and what is the max size breaker that is allowed to protect the #10 wire?
 
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infinity

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New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
New home construction the builder specified 30 amp circuit for electric cook top so we installed a 10 - 3 romex wire. Upon finish the builder brought in an electric range that has an FLA of 36 amps. So I installed a 35 amp breaker which is obviously pushing the limits past code. The customer has been using the home for a couple of years now and recently the range breaker tripped. Would this be considered a hazard to install a 40 amp breaker on this circuit?


You cannot install a 40 amp OCPD on #10 NM cable which is limited to 30 amps. An electric range requires a minimum of a 40 amp circuit by the NEC. You need to run a new circuit with the proper size conductors and OCPD. Sorry to say but you never should have installed a 35 amp CB in the first place.
 

Saturn_Europa

Senior Member
Location
Fishing Industry
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Electrician Limited License NC
Probably one of the clearest sections of the NEC: 240.4

Are you going to eat the cost of it? Or have the homeowner pay? In NC we have to carry our work for a year. But seeing how its been online for a couple years, but never was up to code in the first place. Have you talked to the builder? Maybe they should be on the hook. They speced it out to be 30 amps.
 

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
You cannot install a 40 amp OCPD on #10 NM cable which is limited to 30 amps. An electric range requires a minimum of a 40 amp circuit by the NEC. You need to run a new circuit with the proper size conductors and OCPD. Sorry to say but you never should have installed a 35 amp CB in the first place.

True, except not all ranges require a 40A minimum. Only 8.75kW and larger require the 40A circuit.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
New home construction the builder specified 30 amp circuit for electric cook top so we installed a 10 - 3 romex wire.

Might want to know why did it pass if it was inspected to NEC also.



If it's a cook top only then 10-3 with a 30 amp breaker would be enough for most of them. It's not the inspectors job to catch everything, it's the EC's responsibility to make sure the job is code compliant.

Once they noticed that this wiring was to small or cook top to large they should have went to the builder with a change order for larger conductors, the builder could have purchased a different cook top.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If it's a cook top only then 10-3 with a 30 amp breaker would be enough for most of them. It's not the inspectors job to catch everything, it's the EC's responsibility to make sure the job is code compliant.

Once they noticed that this wiring was to small or cook top to large they should have went to the builder with a change order for larger conductors, the builder could have purchased a different cook top.
I missed the fact it was a cook top and thought we were dealing with a range. Now I am more suspicious of whether or not there is an intermittent problem with the unit.
 

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
True, except not all ranges require a 40A minimum. Only 8.75kW and larger require the 40A circuit.

That's correct, I should have stated that in my post. He stated that it had a current rating of 36 amps which is right around 8.75 kW.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I missed the fact it was a cook top and thought we were dealing with a range. Now I am more suspicious of whether or not there is an intermittent problem with the unit.


The OP said they speced a cook top ( 30 amp) and then they installed a range. It's easy to get confused. They should have noticed if there was an oven circuit.

Where the electrician made his mistake was to install that 35 amp breaker. He should have told the builder that it was not going to work that way.

I think a lot of electricians let themselves get jerked around by these builders. They may get the work but they also get screwed trying to keep the builder happy.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Still missing things, apparently the 10-3 was initially installed because a cooktop was specified but was changed to a range at some point that does need a larger circuit.

Run the larger circuit, that is what the situation calls for, I don't know who to tell you should be financially responsible though.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Still missing things, apparently the 10-3 was initially installed because a cooktop was specified but was changed to a range at some point that does need a larger circuit.

Run the larger circuit, that is what the situation calls for, I don't know who to tell you should be financially responsible though.
Back to my previous post and #10 wire and the allowed OCPD rating per the NEC. I am a bit surprised that it is that difficult for a qualified, and knowledgeable electrical to reason out. Is the wire sizes tyuo carry the load and is the OCPD sized to protect the wire?
I am also concerned as to why it hasn't been established if thebreaker is tripping thermally are instantaneously, I was "assuming" thermally. My "guess" is that the wire has not been sized correctly in the first place so they are backed into a corner regarding the size of the OCPD which is probable doing what it is supposed to be doing and that is to protect the wire.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Back to my previous post and #10 wire and the allowed OCPD rating per the NEC. I am a bit surprised that it is that difficult for a qualified, and knowledgeable electrical to reason out. Is the wire sizes tyuo carry the load and is the OCPD sized to protect the wire?
I am also concerned as to why it hasn't been established if thebreaker is tripping thermally are instantaneously, I was "assuming" thermally. My "guess" is that the wire has not been sized correctly in the first place so they are backed into a corner regarding the size of the OCPD which is probable doing what it is supposed to be doing and that is to protect the wire.
You are missing what I initially did. The plans originally specified a cooktop, 10 AWG was fine for that. Some time after rough in that cooktop apparently got changed to a range but the 10-3 was never changed. Leaving it on a 30 amp breaker was a smart move - and probably does work most of the time, it is when there is a dinner party or other big cooking event going on when it is a problem, or maybe if you have 6 kids at home or more and cook a lot anyway.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
You are missing what I initially did. The plans originally specified a cooktop, 10 AWG was fine for that. Some time after rough in that cooktop apparently got changed to a range but the 10-3 was never changed. Leaving it on a 30 amp breaker was a smart move - and probably does work most of the time, it is when there is a dinner party or other big cooking event going on when it is a problem, or maybe if you have 6 kids at home or more and cook a lot anyway.

Then, could it a simple conclusion that the wire is sized incorrectly foir the load and the breaker is simply doing its job to protect the wire? As a professional is it acceptable to depend upon the breaker to protect the wire based upon "knowing" that there are incidences that you illustrated or to correct the error in sizing the wire however painfully that may by. Is it acceptable to knowingly overload a conductor and depend uipon an OCPD to protect it?
Somebody step uo to the plate and should pay the freight for that oversight and correct that misapplication. Things happen and errors are made.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
You cannot install a 40 amp OCPD on #10 NM cable which is limited to 30 amps. An electric range requires a minimum of a 40 amp circuit by the NEC. You need to run a new circuit with the proper size conductors and OCPD. Sorry to say but you never should have installed a 35 amp CB in the first place.

Is it acceptable to knowingly overload a conductor and depend uipon an OCPD to protect it?
Somebody step uo to the plate and should pay the freight for that oversight and correct that misapplication. Things happen and errors are made.

Infinity said everything that needs to be said about the legal aspects of this installation. It's not at all acceptable.

The problem is just who steps up to the plate and pays for correction.

I think that whoever installed the range should pay because that was not a code compliant install. If the electrician did the hook up knowing the cable was to small then he should bite the bullet to teach him a lesson. If all he did was install that 35 amp breaker to try and correct the problem he should replace it with the correct 30 amp and let whoever know that the circuit is to small .

I can run a 30 amp circuit for a cook top and have everything correct. Then someone can remove said cook top and cut out the counter top and install a free standing range on that same 30 Amp circuit but it would not be legal (code compliant ). Edit: Unless they find one of those small apartment type free standing ranges that will draw less than 30 amps.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Infinity said everything that needs to be said about the legal aspects of this installation. It's not at all acceptable.

The problem is just who steps up to the plate and pays for correction.

I think that whoever installed the range should pay because that was not a code compliant install. If the electrician did the hook up knowing the cable was to small then he should bite the bullet to teach him a lesson. If all he did was install that 35 amp breaker to try and correct the problem he should replace it with the correct 30 amp and let whoever know that the circuit is to small .

I can run a 30 amp circuit for a cook top and have everything correct. Then someone can remove said cook top and cut out the counter top and install a free standing range on that same 30 Amp circuit but it would not be legal (code compliant ). Edit: Unless they find one of those small apartment type free standing ranges that will draw less than 30 amps.
BINGO! By trying to put a ban daid on it would be an injustice but the previous replies were interesting. Do it right.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
New home construction the builder specified 30 amp circuit for electric cook top so we installed a 10 - 3 romex wire. Upon finish the builder brought in an electric range that has an FLA of 36 amps. So I installed a 35 amp breaker which is obviously pushing the limits past code. The customer has been using the home for a couple of years now and recently the range breaker tripped. Would this be considered a hazard to install a 40 amp breaker on this circuit?


It has been said already that the install is not compliant. Either rewire it or install a 30 amp overcurrent protective device. Either way is non compliant but at least using a 30 amp breaker is safer.

I suspect the 35 amp breaker is tripping because there has been too much heat on it for a long time--IDK...
 

Pizza

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Make em pay for it. It's no different than a builder specifying a gas dryer and then bringing an electric one in on the finish.
Nothing says you have to have an electric range outlet per code.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Make em pay for it. It's no different than a builder specifying a gas dryer and then bringing an electric one in on the finish.
Nothing says you have to have an electric range outlet per code.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One other complication is it wasn't addressed back when it was discovered that it wasn't going to get the cooktop that was originally called for. That sort of puts blame back on the installer.
 
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