Wiring a Log Cabin-advise please.

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AFJES

Member
Location
Penn US
I have done renovations and new construction but not as of yet a log cabin. I do all my work myself, no crew. I have a perspective customer who I have spoken to on the phone so far and is very interested in using me. He is sending me via email the electrical plans. The cabin is about 1,800 square feet. I am sure that it is the basics of receptacle placement, lighting etc (NEC requirements).

I don't know the specifics yet as to the inner/outer wall material; sheet rock etc. We are planning on sitting down this weekend to go over the electrical plans so that I can give him an idea of a quote along with some guidance.

When working with a log cabin is there anything in particular that I have to evaluate (take into consideration-look at-type of construction when looking at the plans) which would be different from a "sticks and sheet rock" construction which I can basically do blind folded.

Any help from someone who has done this type of work would be so gratefully appreciated!!
Thank you.
 
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mopowr steve

Senior Member
Location
NW Ohio
Occupation
Electrical contractor
Best I can tell you is, get in good with the builder so you can work along with them or they may even help with augering a hole through the logs as they set them. (Have a long sharp auger bit)

If there is an unfinished basement that will stay that way, junction boxes just below where the holes get drilled to basement may be a friend. Otherwise you'll have to route wires in and out of the hole bored to the basement. And there will be some extensive boring/cutting out the logs for boxes.

Some may concider laying the boxes sideways between the logs so there is less cutting and once the Chico (can't remember what the filler between logs is called) is filled inbetween the logs it will give a more flat spot for finishing out devices and plates.

Space for wiring will be a premium so the less running through the logs the better. Especially when dealing with inserting wires in the boxes as they are inserted into logs.

And of course it will be best to try and keep switch boxes in framed walls because of all the wires especially when it comes to 3-ways, etc.

You'll get the hang of it, Just figure time, time, time.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
If the interior (inside of exterior) walls have round or "D" logs you will need to flatten out spots for the receptacles so the plate will sit flush with the log.
I've seen it done with a jig and router.
Extra wide door casings/frames are your friend as you can run wire behind them.

Most important is getting the HO to make certain of device placement. Unless it's in drywall you will have heck adding/running wire to move or add something after it's built.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Best I can tell you is, get in good with the builder so you can work along with them or they may even help with augering a hole through the logs as they set them. (Have a long sharp auger bit)

If there is an unfinished basement that will stay that way, junction boxes just below where the holes get drilled to basement may be a friend. Otherwise you'll have to route wires in and out of the hole bored to the basement. And there will be some extensive boring/cutting out the logs for boxes.

Some may concider laying the boxes sideways between the logs so there is less cutting and once the Chico (can't remember what the filler between logs is called) is filled inbetween the logs it will give a more flat spot for finishing out devices and plates.

Space for wiring will be a premium so the less running through the logs the better. Especially when dealing with inserting wires in the boxes as they are inserted into logs.

And of course it will be best to try and keep switch boxes in framed walls because of all the wires especially when it comes to 3-ways, etc.

You'll get the hang of it, Just figure time, time, time.
Good advice, especially if this is a true log cabin where the interior is log also. You shouldn't bid this like a normal residence. You'll be spending a lot of time trying to cut boxes into logs as mentioned and trying to hide wires. I would use armored cable that can be painted afterward. If only the outside is log and the interior is sheet-rocked walls then you can bit it as a normal house.

BTW, the fill between the logs is called "chinking".
 

AFJES

Member
Location
Penn US
goldstar, Little Bill, mopowr steve, augie47 - I thank you all (I don't think I missed anyone) for your advice and guidance with this.

He did in fact send me over the plans via email last night. I looked the over quickly and as I figured just the basic NEC receptacle placement and requirements. What concerns me a bit is the "foot note" given for the electrical plans such as "electrical shown is minimum needed with approximate locations". The other thing also is that they have the receptacles listed as 110v-15 amp AFCI receptacle requirement for the bedrooms but not for other living areas that would require them, also 110v is old term, should be 120v. So I would really have to go over this with the HO. As I even mentioned to him on the phone before he sent me the plans more than likely only the minimum requirements of the NEC would probably be noted on the plans and that more than likely he will want extra ones for convenience and possibly splitting up the plan "circuits" so not so many receptacles on one circuit.

I explained to him that I am too old to be putting in 10 hour days 5 days a week and if he is looking for someone to come in with a crew and bang this out in 4 days that it just won't happen. I told him I do all of my own work so I know things are done correctly. I charge way below market hourly rates so that I can take my time. I don't make as much money but with the experience I have had quoting a flat price always leads to additional charges for extras. I would be foolish to even think that I could be present every day all day working with the GC as suggested in this. Physically I just can't do it. He said that there is no "time rush" as this is their vacation log cabin and they don't have to sell their present home and move into this quickly. I think I will still meet with the guy because you never know, he may decide that a log cabin is not for him. He is only at the stage now of getting quotes for all the aspects of building the log cabin and then presenting it to the bank to get a loan.

I don't think I can give him a flat quote because it would have to include an "extras" clause which the bank may question as to the approximate cost of "extras" which is hard to do and that is why it is called "extras" for the unexpected.

Thank you again. If anyone else has any advice I would certainly appreciate hearing it.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I only did one log cabin and it was several years ago. This particular one was only exterior walls for log walls, there was some interior walls that were log siding though.

The main thing is you need to be involved while they are setting logs for any wiring that needs to go into log walls. As has been mentioned you need to make a jig to use with a router and make flat spots in the log so a device with wall plate looks decent when finished, as well as somehow carve out a hole big enough to fit the outlet box being used and bore holes to allow you to get cable to the box later on. If interior walls are stud framed, place receptacles in them near the corner to help lessen how many need to be put into the log walls, and push the 6-12 rule as much as you can on log walls to help lessen number needed as well (but do put in any receptacles that owner absolutely wants in a specific location) Floor receptacles within 18 inches of the wall still work for 210.52 required outlets, but don't run surface metal raceways - the owners will not like the look of that, only save it for something that gets missed and put in later if it is the only option.

A log wall 10 feet long with adjacent stud walls could have no outlets if the adjacent walls both have an outlet very near the corner and comply with the spacing rules. Owner may still want at least one on that wall anyway.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
I don't think I can give him a flat quote because it would have to include an "extras" clause which the bank may question as to the approximate cost of "extras" which is hard to do and that is why it is called "extras" for the unexpected.

Thank you again. If anyone else has any advice I would certainly appreciate hearing it.

well, it sounds like the job is not a good fit for you, for a variety of reasons.

i doubt many people would flat rate something like this. you'd need enough experience
to know what it will take, and know who is building it well enough to know how they
do it.

i've an old set of books sitting on the shelf from the 1970's.... the foxfire books.
in it, there is a section on building a log cabin from scratch, and while it's interesting
reading, it bears no resemblance to manufactured log cabins.... you really need to see
whose building system is being used, and the means they have for wiring the structure.
 

just the cowboy

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Location
newburgh,ny
I have built and wired 4 log homes mine included.

I have built and wired 4 log homes mine included.

Like everyone else said it NEEDS to be done with the GC orbuilder. What I did was this.
1. Layout on floor placement of boxes and call them no nailzones for first 3 courses. (So you can drill down without hitting a spike orscrew)
2. Let them set 3 courses of logs to the 18" point, andhave them stop
3. Drill down with long 1 1/8" bit to basement at adepth of back of box so wire can come into bottom. (note log homes some sit ontriple box beam so you only have from 1 1/2"" of log in front ofbasement box) so drill straight.
4. Drill two 2 1/8" holes with self-feeding wood boringbit one above the other and chisel out the shape of the box this will give youa opening the size of your box.
Flatten face to match face plates ( home owner must havethem first).
5 Run wires to recipticial boxes
6. For light switches and outside lights that must go in logwall drill down hole in first three courses and pull wire leaving enough toreach box. Have GC or builder drill for wire as they go up with logs and giveyou notice they are almost at box height so you can set boxes as they get tothem ( usually can keep up with laying logs because not too many go in walls.
7. Whatever time you think it will take to do the LOG work,times it by 5 and you may make out.
8. Avoid going up and down a log, place boxes in basement oruse more wire to make it to a splice box. You want to keep boxes small and filldown in the log walls.

Good luck
any questions ask
 

JDB3

Senior Member
One log house that I worked on years ago: Logs were cut & assembled in Colorado to make sure everything fit. Then taken down & re-assembled here (in Texas). We put in floor plugs at the outside walls (since the inside walls were of the same logs as the outside, the space between the logs were "chinked" {the old fashioned way, but with new technology}). Switches were placed on inside walls that were of 2x_'s and sheet rocked.
 

AFJES

Member
Location
Penn US
Yikes, Yikes, Yikes!!

Please!! I most certainly APPRECIATE all of everyone's suggestions and guidance on this log cabin (possible) project.

Believe me, I need the work, and quite honestly without coming to this forum I may have quote and taken this job (as my first log cabin project) and totally have LOST my shirt.

I would have not had any idea how complicated and complex it would have been if it was not for everyone's "input" and help here!!

I think I will just have to pass on this project and explain to the "prospective" log cabin owner that he needs to find someone else with "specific" knowledge wiring a log cabin.

I can not get myself caught up with something so unknown as this.

Again!! Thank you to each and every one of you that has taken the time to respond to my post!!!! MUCH APPRECIATED!!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yikes, Yikes, Yikes!!

Please!! I most certainly APPRECIATE all of everyone's suggestions and guidance on this log cabin (possible) project.

Believe me, I need the work, and quite honestly without coming to this forum I may have quote and taken this job (as my first log cabin project) and totally have LOST my shirt.

I would have not had any idea how complicated and complex it would have been if it was not for everyone's "input" and help here!!

I think I will just have to pass on this project and explain to the "prospective" log cabin owner that he needs to find someone else with "specific" knowledge wiring a log cabin.

I can not get myself caught up with something so unknown as this.

Again!! Thank you to each and every one of you that has taken the time to respond to my post!!!! MUCH APPRECIATED!!
Don't get too overwhelmed. Router-ing spots on the log faces and boring out holes to enclose the device boxes takes a little bit of work to get the first few but then it becomes easier and is a repetitive task after that.

I only did one log house, never knew much about them before hand but it all worked out fine - you just need a good plan going in and need to work it out with those setting the logs, and tell the owner/contractor this before hand that if you can't work things out with the builders that it will not turn out very well for everyone involved.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Believe me, I need the work, and quite honestly without coming to this forum I may have quote and taken this job (as my first log cabin project) and totally have LOST my shirt.


From what I have seen that's how log cabin construction works, if you do your homework and have any idea how to bid the job then your price is too high. If you go into it blind and have no idea what you are getting into then you do get the job and lose your shirt but you can tell everything that you to have wired a log cabin ( there should be a club ).
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
From what I have seen that's how log cabin construction works, if you do your homework and have any idea how to bid the job then your price is too high. If you go into it blind and have no idea what you are getting into then you do get the job and lose your shirt but you can tell everything that you to have wired a log cabin ( there should be a club ).

:thumbsup:

On a smaller scale, the same thing applies to swimming pools... but definitely to log homes.

Fortunately for the homeowner, there is a ready supply of the 1st time electricians. :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
:thumbsup:

On a smaller scale, the same thing applies to swimming pools... but definitely to log homes.

Fortunately for the homeowner, there is a ready supply of the 1st time electricians. :)
Many homeowners go with the low bid, but some do go with people they trust to do things properly even if it cost some more. They end up referring you to their friends and you get decent clients instead of just bottom feeders that want cheapest bid, but think that gets them highest bid quality work.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
:thumbsup:

On a smaller scale, the same thing applies to swimming pools... but definitely to log homes.

Fortunately for the homeowner, there is a ready supply of the 1st time electricians. :)


I don't know why it is but you can make more money hooking up a hot tub than you can doing a swimming pool. If you consider the amount to labor involved. Hot tubs can be good money and swimming pools suck.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
An awful lot of tedious work on the couple I helped with. If you must do it, make it T&M.
 

washingtonian

Member
Location
Tacoma, WA
I took on a log home a few years ago and it wasn't nearly as bad as anyone is stating. The builder built it offsite, took it apart, then brought it onsite and assembled it. He cut all the holes for the boxes and drilled all the holes going down into the basement during the first assembly. This had a basement which made it a snap to just run the wires up to the pre-cut holes for the boxes. I think we only had to drill through the logs a couple times to get out for the septic and well. I would check with the h/o and builder to see if this is all provided.
 
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