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Thread: 230.71(A)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    The violation occurs when someone adds the seventh breaker.
    It's not the addition of the 7th breaker that would trigger the violation.

    There wouldn't be a violation if the 7th breaker or 8th breaker or 9th breaker wasn't part of the maximum 6 movements used to shut the service down.

    JAP>

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post
    There wouldn't be a violation if the 7th breaker or 8th breaker or 9th breaker wasn't part of the maximum 6 movements used to shut the service down.
    Thus split-bus panels.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  3. #13
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    Just hurry up and get that installed before the 2020 code is adopted. Multiple service disconnects in a common enclosure will not be permitted in the 2020 code.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim dungar View Post
    You may want to check the UL listing of the equipment. As outdated as it is, I believe their wording something like Suitable for Use as Service Entrance Equipment when provided with not more than 6 devices.
    I did this with an I-Line panel once, and that wording or something very similar was involved. Thing with an I line panel is there is no "spaces" there is breaker mounting space. 225 and below devices typically take up 4.6 inches, larger devices will take more mounting space. In the one I had I recall having 2-400 amp devices and 2-125 amp devices, and enough space that one could easily go over 6 disconnects if you put in as many 225 amp or below devices as would physically fit, but if you put in all 400 amp devices you may not have gotten much more than 6 in there. This also had a 1200 amp sub feed lug kit installed to be used as main lugs, which was all they would sell me for main lug options at that time anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    Just hurry up and get that installed before the 2020 code is adopted. Multiple service disconnects in a common enclosure will not be permitted in the 2020 code.
    I heard that was coming. What about existing installations, especially if there is say 4 breakers existing and you want to add #5 and or #6?
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    ...
    I heard that was coming. What about existing installations, especially if there is say 4 breakers existing and you want to add #5 and or #6?
    I would say you can't add those additional disconnects. There is no exception to the rule that would permit that. Here is the language from the Second Draft Report.
    230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.

    Each service shall have only one disconnecting means unless the requirements of 230.71(B) are met.


    (A) General.
    For the purpose of this section, disconnecting means installed as part of listed equipment and used solely for the following shall not be considered a service disconnecting means:
    1. Power monitoring equipment
    2. Surge-protective device(s)
    3. Control circuit of the ground-fault protection system
    4. Power-operable service disconnecting means





    (B) Two to Six Service Disconnecting Means.
    Two to six service disconnects shall be permitted for each service permitted by 230.2 or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1, 3, 4, or 5. The two to six service disconnecting means shall be permitted to consist of a combination of any of the following:
    1. Separate enclosures with a main service disconnecting means in each enclosure
    2. Panelboards with a main service disconnecting means in each panelboard enclosure
    3. Switchboard(s) where there is only one service disconnect in each separate vertical section where there are barriers separating each vertical section
    4. Service disconnects in switchgear or metering centers where each disconnect is located in a separate compartment

    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  6. #16
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    Thats just great. Make a change to a very longstanding practice with no history of problems or issues, and jack the price up from $5,000 to $10,000 for the service equipment for a 1000 amp 120/208 service. I have one client I do a lot of upgrades for and they will probably just stick with their 40 year old non-AIC compliant equipment rather than pay the upcharge. Genius.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  7. #17
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    Lets say you have incoming service conductors into trough. At present you put four service disconnects however you still have space on trough in fact you can put four more service disconnects based on service and size of trough in future.

    So do you just tell the contractor right now it violates six service disconnects rule and place main breaker now or tell not to install the trough at all?

    OP secanrio would be similar.
    Last edited by hhsting; 04-25-19 at 10:19 PM.

  8. #18
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    Charlie this is the "what if" scenario.
    And your first post used " if "in the sentence. I think what the fab five were thinking is the same thing. "What if"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    Just hurry up and get that installed before the 2020 code is adopted. Multiple service disconnects in a common enclosure will not be permitted in the 2020 code.
    What happened to being about this change? Where did you read this?

    Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhsting View Post
    Lets say you have incoming service conductors into trough. At present you put four service disconnects however you still have space on trough in fact you can put four more service disconnects based on service and size of trough in future.
    Six disconnect rule didn't disappear, they just can't be in same enclosure/section anymore. What you described would still be allowed.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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