User Tag List

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 122

Thread: GFCI Receptacle for garbage disposal

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    41,338
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The intent of the 2017 language was that a cabinet door is not a door, but that is not what the words say. The 2020 will remove the words door and doorway from that section to make it clear that receptacles under the cabinet that are within 6' from the sink will require GFCI protection. This change will also require GFCI protection in some unusual locations. For example in my master bedroom the master bath sink is located such that one of the bedroom wall receptacles would require GFCI protection if the 2020 language was applied.
    So what is their intent? If it is based on "what if" then why not GFCI protection of everything? That still won't prevent all electrocutions but will get quite a few of them.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ocala, Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,090
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I must admit that it is nice to ask a question that ends up having multiple answers so I don't feel like it was a stupid question. For once.


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    4,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The intent of the 2017 language was that a cabinet door is not a door, but that is not what the words say. The 2020 will remove the words door and doorway from that section to make it clear that receptacles under the cabinet that are within 6' from the sink will require GFCI protection. This change will also require GFCI protection in some unusual locations. For example in my master bedroom the master bath sink is located such that one of the bedroom wall receptacles would require GFCI protection if the 2020 language was applied.

    Electricians disagreeing on whether a cabinet door is not actually a door, pulling 6' strings from the receptacle to the sink for measurements trying to decide whether or not a GFI is required, then disagreeing on exactly how that measurement should be taken.

    It's almost comical.

    I'm glad our fathers and forefathers didn't waste this much time on such small matters because nothing would have ever gotten accomplished.

    Someone make a rule that works and lets roll with it.

    This is not that difficult.


    JAP>

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ocala, Florida, USA
    Posts
    3,090
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jap View Post
    Electricians disagreeing on whether a cabinet door is not actually a door, pulling 6' strings from the receptacle to the sink for measurements trying to decide whether or not a GFI is required, then disagreeing on exactly how that measurement should be taken.

    It's almost comical.

    I'm glad our fathers and forefathers didn't waste this much time on such small matters because nothing would have ever gotten accomplished.

    Someone make a rule that works and lets roll with it.

    This is not that difficult.


    JAP>
    Frankly, it is that difficult. Remember when a disconnect had to be within sight. 100 yards across a football field is within sight, they had to define it better. The code requires a service disconnect nearest the point of entrance. Even within a 50 mile radius of my house that distance is everywhere from 10 feet to 3 feet


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    LA basin, CA
    Posts
    2,025
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    ...The 2020 will remove the words door and doorway from that section to make it clear that receptacles under the cabinet that are within 6' from the sink will require GFCI protection..
    "Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
    See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12
    Roger Ramjet NoFixNoPay

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,756
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Strathead View Post
    The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.
    For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
    from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
    path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
    would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
    barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

    680.22
    (4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

    (5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

    If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Strathead View Post
    The new wording in 210.8 NEC 2018 states that when determining distance for GFCI's it is "would follow without ... passing through a door. My first thought is that if the receptacle has to pass through a door, then a GFCI isn't required on the other side of the door. But I think I have read here where it is believed to be required. Can we discuss the reasoning? I can see where one might state, a cabinet door isn't a "door" in this case, for example.

    Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    41,338
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
    from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
    path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
    would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
    barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

    680.22
    (4) GFCI Protection. All 15- and 20-ampere, single-phase, 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

    (5) Measurements. In determining the dimensions in this section addressing receptacle spacings, the distance to be measured shall be the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, doorway with hinged or sliding door, window opening, or other effective permanent barrier.

    If there was a rec in a cabinet say 7 ft from a pool i would require it to have ground fault protection
    What if it is on other side of a wall, effectively in another "room" than what the pool is in? Certainly wouldn't hurt to GFCI protect it in most cases, but may not be all that necessary.

    Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthisworld View Post
    Is the disposal Recept within 6’ of the edge of the sink?
    When it comes to a direct line regardless of obstacles, usually they are, the topic of discussion is how to measure that distance when there is obstacles, openings, etc.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    25,507
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Problem with making rules is all the "what if's" that didn't come up initially when making the rule.
    That's what code compliance is all about: making the general fit the specific.
    Code references based on 2005 NEC
    Larry B. Fine
    Master Electrician
    Electrical Contractor
    Richmond, VA

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    24,140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ramsy View Post
    "Readily Accessible" currently prohibits "to climb over or under, to remove obstacles"
    See first paragraph of 210.8 and 210.12
    That has nothing to do with the requirement that the receptacle have GFCI protection. It just says you can't use a GFCI receptacle in that location to provide the required protection.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •