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Thread: Wire size reduction for branch circuits

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by xformer View Post
    Fixture Wire is the wire that is located on the inside of light fixtures. The Branch Circuit wiring is the wiring from the breaker to the outlet box.
    Fixture wire might extend from luminiare to where it connects to the branch circuit wiring - like a whip from a troffer to a junction box with branch circuit wiring in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    But what is the wire in the whip of a troffer? I always thought that was "fixture wire", as I dont see how it could be so small if it isnt.
    It can be fixture wire it can be branch circuit wire. An allowable tap conductor here doesn't have to be "fixture wire" either.

    402.10Uses Permitted.

    Fixture wires shall be permitted (1) for installation in luminaires and in similar equipment where enclosed or protected and not subject to bending or twisting in use, or (2) for connecting luminaires to the branch-circuit conductors supplying the luminaires.
    Wouldn't (2) include the conductors in a "whip" or even conductors ran up a lighting pole to a single luminaire?
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    That would be a fixture tap and fall under 402.5 and 240.5(B)(2).
    And 240.5(B)(2) requires the use of fixture wire. Building wire of the same size is not permitted for that application. The only permitted wire types for that application are found in Table 402.3.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    And 240.5(B)(2) requires the use of fixture wire. Building wire of the same size is not permitted for that application. The only permitted wire types for that application are found in Table 402.3.
    I don't see it requiring fixture taps to be fixture wire, it simply states allowable sizes to be used with different branch circuit ratings.

    410.117(C) allows any conductor type with suitable temp rating for the application to be used as a fixture tap, though that section applies to flush and recessed luminaires.

    410.62 (cord connected luminaires)also allows, with conditions, the use of smaller conductors than the branch circuit conductors.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I don't see it requiring fixture taps to be fixture wire, it simply states allowable sizes to be used with different branch circuit ratings.

    410.117(C) allows any conductor type with suitable temp rating for the application to be used as a fixture tap, though that section applies to flush and recessed luminaires.

    410.62 (cord connected luminaires)also allows, with conditions, the use of smaller conductors than the branch circuit conductors.
    The wording in 240.5(B)(2) says those sizes are fixture wire. When you buy a pre-made whip with conductors smaller than 14, they are always made up using fixture wire.
    240.5(B)(2) Fixture Wire. Fixture wire shall be permitted to be tapped to the branch-circuit conductor of a branch circuit in accordance with the following: ...
    The types of conductors that are fixture wire are listed in Table 402.3.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The wording in 240.5(B)(2) says those sizes are fixture wire. When you buy a pre-made whip with conductors smaller than 14, they are always made up using fixture wire.

    The types of conductors that are fixture wire are listed in Table 402.3.
    So I could take any light fixture and use up to 50 feet of 18 AWG fixture wire in a chapter three raceway to connect it to the branch circuit? OR does it have to come from the factory as part of the fixture to use 240.5(B)(2)?
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    The wording in 240.5(B)(2) says those sizes are fixture wire. When you buy a pre-made whip with conductors smaller than 14, they are always made up using fixture wire.

    The types of conductors that are fixture wire are listed in Table 402.3.
    It does not say tap conductors must be fixture wire, it along with the table tell us what size/length fixture wire is acceptable on certain branch circuits.

    Other sections I mentioned have situations where tap conductors can be used and no mention of fixture wire - 410.117 even mentions MC or AC cable which won't have fixture wire in them.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    So I could take any light fixture and use up to 50 feet of 18 AWG fixture wire in a chapter three raceway to connect it to the branch circuit? OR does it have to come from the factory as part of the fixture to use 240.5(B)(2)?
    Yes, you are permitted to do that, as long as it feeds a single fixture.
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    It does not say tap conductors must be fixture wire, it along with the table tell us what size/length fixture wire is acceptable on certain branch circuits.

    Other sections I mentioned have situations where tap conductors can be used and no mention of fixture wire - 410.117 even mentions MC or AC cable which won't have fixture wire in them.
    I stand by my statement that if you are using conductors smaller than 14 AWG and protected in accordance with the ampacities shown in 240.5(B)(2), you are required to use fixture wire. 410.117 says nothing about the required overcurrent protection of the "tap conductor".
    Don, Illinois
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Norris View Post
    My company installed LED lights in a school. The branch circuit is a 20 amp breaker with 12-2 wire. We installed 40 watt LED panels and a ceiling sensor with 14-3 MC from the switch leg box. The inspector failed us do to the fact the breaker is 20 amp therefore all wire must be 12 gauge. The ceiling sensor only draws 3 amps and has 18 wire hooked up internally. I referenced 240.5 (B)(2) witch states 14 can be used as fixture wire on a 20 amp breaker, but also went to table 402.3 and THWN is no listed. Is there any other code I should reference?
    Thanks all
    #14 in a school? I don't think so!

    Check their specs. I assure you, no #14. The code doesnt matter when you enter the ivory towers of school work...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I stand by my statement that if you are using conductors smaller than 14 AWG and protected in accordance with the ampacities shown in 240.5(B)(2), you are required to use fixture wire. 410.117 says nothing about the required overcurrent protection of the "tap conductor".
    If you are using smaller than 14 AWG I agree, it must be fixture wire, my point all along here has been that use of tap conductors is not limited to fixture wire only.
    I live for today, I'm just a day behind.

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