Question about wiring (with inspection)

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kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
So you know like when you do the kitchen or the bathroom, you pretty much have to make everything to comply with code. And if you do a bedroom you have to make sure that bedroom gets all outlets according to code, AFCI breaker, and smoke detectors throughout the house (if those aren't done). Well my question is this, a customer asked me to installa/wire new light fixture in bedroom, all walls closed and he doesn't want any outlets up to code etc. Do I just put that on AFCI and call it a day or do I need to make sure outlet spacing is right and wire all smokes in since house has none?
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
I would say you would only be obligated to ensure your new work is up to code unless there is a major renovation. I would certainly try to upsell the smokes though.

They don't have the money.....

Yeah I get the part about new work, but in places like kitchen and bathroom that doesn't count, if you start renovation you must make everything up to code. This is also the case if walls are open you must make everything to code. I just don't know if same applies to bedrooms with closed walls, it's also a big pricy job since smokes are involved
 

luckylerado

Senior Member
...don't know if same applies to bedrooms with closed walls...

NEC does not mandate that you add smokes or re arrange recepts because you are installing a new light fixture. Local code IDK, maybe but doubtful. Frankly IMO changing a fixture in a bedroom is a service call with no inspection required. If a new circuit is in order then it will need to be to code but AFCI breakers are expensive and if there is no money for smokes then an AFCI will be a hard sell and rearranging recepts probably even harder.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
NEC does not mandate that you add smokes or re arrange recepts because you are installing a new light fixture. Local code IDK, maybe but doubtful. Frankly IMO changing a fixture in a bedroom is a service call with no inspection required. If a new circuit is in order then it will need to be to code but AFCI breakers are expensive and if there is no money for smokes then an AFCI will be a hard sell and rearranging recepts probably even harder.

I am running a new wire from switch to new box for fixture.....in 3 bedrooms. It's done with inspection because they are also redoing kitchen and bathroom. Installing hardwired smokes will cost them another $1500+ and so far they aren't the greatest customers as far as money goes :)

Everything will be on AFCI as far as new wires....

I am also doing the same in basement and contractor put a few new walls up....which makes it even more confusing ......major renovation or not according to nec I have no clue
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I am also doing the same in basement and contractor put a few new walls up....which makes it even more confusing ......major renovation or not according to nec I have no clue

It can be confusing at times because these things are not covered by the NEC. Much of this is a judgement call by the AHJ.

If you are doing a basement finish and turning this area into living space the code is clear about what's needed.

The good thing is that you will need to get a rough-in inspection before any walls are closed. This is the time to meet and get to know the inspector and see if you have everything that will be expected and get any questions answered.

I wouldn't think they will have you add receptacles to upstairs bedrooms but if they do it's not going to get any harder because the walls are closed.

On the other hand it's normal for that type of work to trigger a demand for hard wired smokes
in many jurisdictions.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
It can be confusing at times because these things are not covered by the NEC. Much of this is a judgement call by the AHJ.

If you are doing a basement finish and turning this area into living space the code is clear about what's needed.

The good thing is that you will need to get a rough-in inspection before any walls are closed. This is the time to meet and get to know the inspector and see if you have everything that will be expected and get any questions answered.

I wouldn't think they will have you add receptacles to upstairs bedrooms but if they do it's not going to get any harder because the walls are closed.

On the other hand it's normal for that type of work to trigger a demand for hard wired smokes
in many jurisdictions.


Lol. Yeah I was hoping to meet the inspector during rough. Guy doesn't call you back or answer calls. You leave a msg and he shows up at job sight whenever he feels like :) I have no problem with that, but I did have a few questions

I've done several jobs there already, never seen the inspector yet ))
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Yeah I get the part about new work, but in places like kitchen and bathroom that doesn't count, if you start renovation you must make everything up to code. This is also the case if walls are open you must make everything to code. I just don't know if same applies to bedrooms with closed walls, it's also a big pricy job since smokes are involved

That may be how it is where you are but not everywhere.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
.... but in places like kitchen and bathroom that doesn't count, if you start renovation you must make everything up to code. This is also the case if walls are open you must make everything to code...

That may be how it is where you are but not everywhere.
Certainly not the way it is where I live. I don't know where the OP lives but I'm sure not eager to move there.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
Certainly not the way it is where I live. I don't know where the OP lives but I'm sure not eager to move there.

Mass

Kitchen and bathroom renovations with building permit trigger plumbing and electrical inspections, bedroom or addition renovations also trigger fire inspections even if house has zero detectors in the first place
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I'm not sure if Mass is using the International Residential Code or not but if your jurisdiction is using it then 314.3.1 would require that you update and install smoke alarms as required for new construction when you perform alterations and additions that require a permit. It does allow battery operated only smoke alarms in areas where the building finish is not removed and there is no accessible attic or crawlspace in which you could fish new wires.

Also IRC section 315.3 requires the same thing for Carbon Monoxide alarms in the dwelling unit.

Chris
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Mass

Kitchen and bathroom renovations with building permit trigger plumbing and electrical inspections, bedroom or addition renovations also trigger fire inspections even if house has zero detectors in the first place

Yes, pulling a permit triggers inspections. But what rule are you thinking of that is going to require you to work on anything but you where hired to?

I direct you to Mass amendment rules 3 and 4.

Rule3-4.jpg
 

construct

Senior Member
I'm not sure if Mass is using the International Residential Code or not but if your jurisdiction is using it then 314.3.1 would require that you update and install smoke alarms as required for new construction when you perform alterations and additions that require a permit. It does allow battery operated only smoke alarms in areas where the building finish is not removed and there is no accessible attic or crawlspace in which you could fish new wires.

Also IRC section 315.3 requires the same thing for Carbon Monoxide alarms in the dwelling unit.

Chris

yep....:happyyes:
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
I'm not sure if Mass is using the International Residential Code or not but if your jurisdiction is using it then 314.3.1 would require that you update and install smoke alarms as required for new construction when you perform alterations and additions that require a permit. It does allow battery operated only smoke alarms in areas where the building finish is not removed and there is no accessible attic or crawlspace in which you could fish new wires.

Also IRC section 315.3 requires the same thing for Carbon Monoxide alarms in the dwelling unit.

Chris

Construction alterations to the room or a house I assume, not alterations to existing wiring?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I'm not sure if Mass is using the International Residential Code or not but if your jurisdiction is using it then 314.3.1 would require that you update and install smoke alarms as required for new construction when you perform alterations and additions that require a permit. It does allow battery operated only smoke alarms in areas where the building finish is not removed and there is no accessible attic or crawlspace in which you could fish new wires.

Also IRC section 315.3 requires the same thing for Carbon Monoxide alarms in the dwelling unit.

Chris

Here are the Mass rules, I do not know if they are lifted from the IRC or not. I tend to doubt they where.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/dfs/osfm/pubed/flyers/consumers-guide-w-sell-1-and-2-fam.pdf

These will be enforced when a home is sold, and yes perhaps during remodeling.


kolyan2k, the upgraded smoke alarms are not a freebie required of the electrician, the homeowner has to pay for this work.
 
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