Getting a license without documented work hours

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kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
Since I am here decided to ask another question that I had in my mind for a while now.....

Buddy of mine has been working as an electrical for about 7-8 years and has been filing taxes using 1099 forms. Finished 2-year electrical school. Applied for exam.......board of electricians (in MA) has been messing with his case for exactly 1 year, been asking him to provide this and that all the time, he provided everything 100% and after a year he got a call from main office and some head guy there told him that its too bad but he is not getting electrical license because he doesnt have hour by hour documented work hours (8000 hours is it now) even though he worked for nearly 8 years which is double of whats required.

Any way out ? Letters of work hours didnt help even though they asked for them notarized at first, later said that anyone can write a letter....etc.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
If he has the proper hours (documented) I don't see how the state can refuse him his test. Just because "some head guy" called him it does not mean anything. I am sure he has the "head guy" has a boss and his boss has a boss...

If his hours are there then make a HUGE fuss with the board.

The louder the wheel squeaks the sooner it will get the oil.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
If he has the proper hours (documented) I don't see how the state can refuse him his test. Just because "some head guy" called him it does not mean anything. I am sure he has the "head guy" has a boss and his boss has a boss...

If his hours are there then make a HUGE fuss with the board.

The louder the wheel squeaks the sooner it will get the oil.


Thats the thing, he has 8 years of work documented but not hour by hour, so board of electricians said maybe during those 8 year you worked 8 hours instead of required 8000.....funny that they said it only exactly 1 year after he applied for test, before they had 5 other reasons which didnt work to screw him

And their office in downtown is like a max security prison, everything is locked with only one reception girl outside. cant really discuss much with anyone, and no one is really interested anyway. They recently rerouted all exam and qualification questions to some Las Vegas firm too so no one bothers them in Boston.....
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
They might be looking at all that 1099 work as unlicensed contracting.


At first they requested a notarized letter from licensed electrician (who gave those 1099s) that he worked those 8k hours, later said letter is not good since anyone can write it.

I kind of understand that rules are rules, but poor guy worked 16000 hours for 10-15 bucks a hour and finished 2-year school that he paid $2000-3000 bucks for.....all that to get the denial is crazy
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
At first they requested a notarized letter from licensed electrician (who gave those 1099s) that he worked those 8k hours, later said letter is not good since anyone can write it.

I kind of understand that rules are rules, but poor guy worked 16000 hours for 10-15 bucks a hour and finished 2-year school that he paid $2000-3000 bucks for.....all that to get the denial is crazy

um, if you are working for someone in a training position, as an apprenticeship is,
you are hourly, with *paycheck* stubs. or, you are in a state indentured apprenticeship,
which gives you documentation.

a 1099 is something you give a subcontractor, not an apprentice. most likely that is why
they are having a hairball over this.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
1099 for hourly work.

That would be the problem.
I know that California will not reward you with a license if you performed unlawful work.
Unless it is legal in that state to 1099 a apprentice or a journeyman then your friend is screwed.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Lots of guessing going on. Each state gets to set the rules and here in ma it is documented hours are one of them. Not tax records.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
They might be looking at all that 1099 work as unlicensed contracting.

Lots of guessing going on. Each state gets to set the rules and here in ma it is documented hours are one of them. Not tax records.


I agree with mgookin on this one. I'm sure it is documented hours but those would be documented hours working under a licensed electrician ( journeyman or master ). A 1099 is not for an employee but for a sub contractor. I think that 1099 would have set off alarm bells.

The guy should go to the state labor board and see just how legal it was for him to be given a 1099.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I don't see how any hours paid for on a 1099 can be considered as being under the supervision of a licensed journeyman, since one would have to be an employee to be under that supervision, and pretty much by definition of what a 1099 is, he could not have been an employee.

I think he is out of luck.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I don't see how any hours paid for on a 1099 can be considered as being under the supervision of a licensed journeyman, since one would have to be an employee to be under that supervision, and pretty much by definition of what a 1099 is, he could not have been an employee.

I think he is out of luck.


I agree.

But he may be able to show that he really was an employee and was being paid illegally by his employer. There is a test they use to determine if a person can be a sub contractor or an employee. Such things as materials furnished and control of hours worked and the fact that he didn't have a license. If you have control over a person and really are providing supervision they can not be a sub contractor.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
Thanks for the info.....yeah I was pretty sure he was screwed. I figured maybe someone has any ideas.....One guy told him to speak with inspector and see if he can help, after 8 years of working he even knows many inspectors in towns :)

Not sure why he got 1099s. That's how employee paid everyone....well couple of people were employed. They worked say 2000 hours a year and got their 1099 for $30k, and paid taxes based on that....
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The thing is the board has been looking at it. And while they may even feel badly for this person they have to weigh that against the fact the rest of the candidates followed the process. If this persons goal was to become a journeyman electrician it is on them to look up the possess and make sure they and their employer are following it.

Here is a lot of info about licensing and testing in MA

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/docs/dpl/boards/el/el-cib.pdf

At the bottom of page 17 it goes into the needed work experience forms and ways to circumvent those if there is a reason.

On page 20 is the work experience form they are looking for.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
owns :)

Not sure why he got 1099s. That's how employee paid everyone....well couple of people were employed. They worked say 2000 hours a year and got their 1099 for $30k, and paid taxes based on that....

Yeah, its shady and that should have been a red flag to your buddy.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Not sure why he got 1099s. That's how employee paid everyone....well couple of people were employed. They worked say 2000 hours a year and got their 1099 for $30k, and paid taxes based on that....

Mayb he wasn't a master electrician and couldn't have over one employee and thought this would get him around the rules. Check and see what type of license this guy holds.
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
The thing is the board has been looking at it. And while they may even feel badly for this person they have to weigh that against the fact the rest of the candidates followed the process. If this persons goal was to become a journeyman electrician it is on them to look up the possess and make sure they and their employer are following it.

Here is a lot of info about licensing and testing in MA

http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/docs/dpl/boards/el/el-cib.pdf

At the bottom of page 17 it goes into the needed work experience forms and ways to circumvent those if there is a reason.

On page 20 is the work experience form they are looking for.


I asked him why he didn't follow normal procedures etc., I guess he didn't what to argue with employer on those 1099s, but mainly he called board of electricians 2 years before he applied to school (with already 6 years of work experience) and they told him to finish school and present his case with them in 2 year and since he worked for so long, most likely he will get the license. Now obviously that was just a phone conversation so there is no proof of what they told him
 

kolyan2k

Member
Location
United States
PS. I don't really think employer had any intention of screwing the guy, I suppose he didn't know anything about work hours etc. Back in his days board of electricians gave out licences left and right to anyone who passed the exam. I also know that with 1099s employee can have tax deductions for transportation, office supplies, tools, etc......maybe that's why they both thought it's a good idea......don't know.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
PS. I don't really think employer had any intention of screwing the guy, I suppose he didn't know anything about work hours etc. Back in his days board of electricians gave out licences left and right to anyone who passed the exam. I also know that with 1099s employee can have tax deductions for transportation, office supplies, tools, etc......maybe that's why they both thought it's a good idea......don't know.

In Florida they would hang that "employer" on workmen's comp circumvention.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
$10-15 for eight years as a 1099. Responsible for his own taxes, no bennies of any kind.
Screwed, and not even a kiss before or after.

Nice "employer".

PS. I don't really think employer had any intention of screwing the guy, I suppose he didn't know anything about work hours etc.


He may not of had any intension of screwing the guy out of hours worked in the trade but was screwing him in other ways.

I think most of these guys know exactly what they are doing and what laws they are breaking and just assume they will get away with it.
 
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