What is your help situation? How are you getting new employees?

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brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
Is it this bad for everyone?

All of my contractor friends here are in the same predicament; more work than they can handle, and can't find skilled help.

Are you having any success finding new employees, and if so, what is your strategy?

We can't even get an ad answered. The few "resumes" that do come in are terrible. I haven't interviewed anyone in weeks. The last couple I did were a complete waste of time. One guy said he went to trade school; in the interview says he didn't finish, and couldn't even tell me what classes he took other than "some electrical stuff..... And I was usually the first one finished."

We're using staffing services on most of our jobs now, and it's basically to get bodies on site at this point, when they actually show up.

We are turning down dollars every week. This is crazy.


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peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Perhaps that labor shortage that has been predicted for so long is finally here. It's been mentioned before but bears repeating since it's relevant to the topic at hand: I'm always one of the three or four guys under 40 at my code update classes, in a class of 60+ people. The average age in the room definitely seems to be in the higher 40's. There simply isn't enough young people in the trades to replace those that are retiring or leaving.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Perhaps that labor shortage that has been predicted for so long is finally here. It's been mentioned before but bears repeating since it's relevant to the topic at hand: I'm always one of the three or four guys under 40 at my code update classes, in a class of 60+ people. The average age in the room definitely seems to be in the higher 40's. There simply isn't enough young people in the trades to replace those that are retiring or leaving.

my wife's company has a large facility in alpharetta, ga.
they can't get anyone, either.

there's no shortage of labor. skilled labor is another thing. the topic came up with another contractor
yesterday when we were chatting, and his solution is to get them green, and train them the way he
want's it... i guess like making a topiary tree with tool bags.

i can only snark and curmugeonate about my experience. this year marks 40 years doing this.
when i was brand new, i was learning from 40 year olds who were WW2 vets, seabees and the like.
different work ethic, different time. low tolerance for bs, and they were not sensitive to your needs.

but the system spit out pretty good sparkies in four years. emotionally scarred, drinking, dope smoking
sparkies, but pretty good sparkies.

roll forward 20 years, and i'm in early 40's, looking at early 20s muppets. not reassuring. different work
ethic. something's been lost, and a large part of it was the stalling of our compensation. 40 years ago,
the money relative to blue collar wages, and some white collar wages, was pretty good.

20 years later, the hourly wage is the same, benefits were reduced, and the work wasn't there.
talent follows money.

40 years later, and the generation that didn't give as much of a flip taught the next generation.

and here we are.

at 60 years old, i've been working my ass off for the last 4 years, as fast as i can go. having a good time,
making very good money. i woke up at 2:30 am, was out the door at 4:00 am, in downtown LA for work
at 5:20 am, in 'da hood (boyle heights) out of there at 7:15 am, drove nonstop to 20 miles past sacramento,
did work there, drove home. 977 miles today. 375 miles yesterday. got home at 9:35 pm.
work tomorrow, 'cause if i stop, i will get buried.

would i hire someone to help me? sure, if i could find someone who could roll. the only one i know who will do
that is also 60 years old. i don't need someone to demonstrate opposed thumbs by texting all day. :-/
 
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peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I am of the belief that there is skilled labor available if you are paying enough.

That doesn't negate the reality that there is a genuine labor shortage because trades have become unacceptable occupations in recent decades. So it will be good for electricians as their pay will inevitably have to increase due to supply and demand. But will electricians start making $75 an hour plus benefits? Doubtful because that will become uneconomical for employers very quickly.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Skilled is the key word.

The Dodge Ram I bought a few months ago had the idiot light come on. Trouble code said Something plugged in the exhaust system, tech called for support. It is a diesel so IDK if it's called a catalytic converter or not. Warranty item, factory recall, and they replaced it as soon as one came in.
One quarter of the way into vacation it came on again. No warning message of impending doom, so finished trip. Same code. Tech has to call for support again. Replace part B now. Warranty. Replaced as soon as part came in.
Less than 30 miles later, idiot light. Same Code. On to part C, whatever that will be, once support returns call to Tech and part comes in.

We wait for computers to tell us what's wrong instead of understanding the complete process.
I am partly to blame because we do that for a living. Usually just takes a button pusher when we upgrade a process to PLC control.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
The supply of unskilled labor into the pipeline to become skilled labor is shrinking. No one wants to pay to train the next generation of skilled labor.

Some of this is a natural outgrowth of the way labor unions and government operate to restrict the labor market. That tends to favor existing workers, but makes it much harder to enter the work force.

There is also the problem that the apprenticeship system is seriously broken and needs a major overhaul. It should not be on employers to pay to train employees who by and large will not be working for them down the road. The control of apprenticeships has to be taken out from under government and labor unions and employers and placed in the hands of a third party whose sole interest is in creating quality, skilled employees, not union employees, or non-union employees.

The union issue makes it very hard to deal with shifts in the market place for both unionized employers and non-unionized employers, and union/non-union employees.

I also think there needs to be more specialization. Right now "electrician" might mean just about anything from a residential lineman that mostly pulls Romex to a guy who spends most of his time programming and debugging PLC based equipment and only carries a screwdriver around with him so he can open cabinets. There is a huge difference in skill sets between the artisans that can make EMT and rigid look pretty and the guy who is debugging a PLC based piece of machinery, and it cannot be the same person.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
That doesn't negate the reality that there is a genuine labor shortage because trades have become unacceptable occupations in recent decades.

On the trade as whole I agree with you.

For any one specific company I disagree with you.

All it takes is paying more than the others around you and the help will come to you. Really, workers like money.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Skilled is the key word.

The Dodge Ram I bought a few months ago had the idiot light come on. Trouble code said Something plugged in the exhaust system, tech called for support. It is a diesel so IDK if it's called a catalytic converter or not. Warranty item, factory recall, and they replaced it as soon as one came in.
One quarter of the way into vacation it came on again. No warning message of impending doom, so finished trip. Same code. Tech has to call for support again. Replace part B now. Warranty. Replaced as soon as part came in.
Less than 30 miles later, idiot light. Same Code. On to part C, whatever that will be, once support returns call to Tech and part comes in.

We wait for computers to tell us what's wrong instead of understanding the complete process.
I am partly to blame because we do that for a living. Usually just takes a button pusher when we upgrade a process to PLC control.

I used to work at a Chrysler dealership.

I'll bet if you had a look at the tech's weekly pay, you would understand.
 

__dan

Senior Member
The market has strong desire. Desire is everything you can imagine. I want a 400 sf new kitchen but it has to fit into a 90 sf space. There's a ton of crap work and more being done every day. Every customer has the desire their wiring will be installed or brought up to professional standards. Someone skilled enough, an empath, will see what needs to be done and start working, get it done, without being told every detail necessary to meet the customer's desires.

The market has weak demand. Demand is the money the customer takes out of their pocket and pays to the workman to get the job done. The customer demands cheap crap work (then complains of the expensive low quality of the workforce problem). Understanding the difference between desire and demand is beyond the customer's comprehension.

Unfortunately this weak customer demand trains the workforce to give the customer what they are willing to pay for, the cheap crap unprofessional work.

There is no shortage of skilled labor. In the old days, if they ever existed, labor would be supervised by layers of more experienced tradespeople, license holders and contractors. If labor could not produce quality work, they would be doing the job over and over again until the conduit ran straight and plumb, the wiring and terminations did not look like some bird's nest, the bad choice of materials and implementation did not fall off the wall two or three years out ...

Now, the market pays for a worker with two years experience and the supervisor is some temp labor administrator who has never done skilled trade labor and is himself two years or less as an administrative manager.

There is not and will never be a shortage of this unskilled labor pool the market chooses from to perform their skilled labor trade.

The problem is the market demands low price low quality work. When the market demands in their calculation the job with the lowest cost over the life of the install, the higher quality better performing installation, they will need to hire and demand professionals who can produce that.
 

GLSA

Member
Location
Ut
How can there be a skilled labor shortage? I have heard this complaint for the last three years and you can't have a shortage for three years in a economy based on capitalism.

There are plenty of skilled electricians out there. Contractors just have to respond to market forces and pay them, provide benefits, and treat them better.


As far as younger people not coming into the trade, this is totally self inflicted by the industry. First of all how many current electricians out there talking positively about this trade? Not very many and the reasons for this vary but there are a lot of commonalities. There is a lot contractors and GC's could do to make this trade desirable but in my opinion they are hard headed.
 

The Spunkster

Member
Location
NJ----USA
You get what you pay for! If you pay your help what they are worth,they can't afford not to stay with you. The help is available,but not for $17.00 an hr..Show a little respect for their skills.
 

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Hi Guys. I've been lurking this forum for many years. This is the topic that made me want to join.

I've been a union electrician for 12 years and when I started my company two years ago, there was no doubt in my mind I wanted to be a union employer. Here's why: (1) When a need a guy or a group of guys I call the dispatcher in the afternoon and put in my order, by 9am the next morning the guy(s) arrive ready to work. I keep them for as long as I need them and lay them off when there is no more work to do (with generally no hard feelings since someone else will hire them). If the dispatcher is having trouble filling my order, he will call around to other jurisdictions, bottom line--he will fill it and I don't have to do anything more.

I can order the level of expertise I need from totally green to crusty old journeyman. There are 17 different ranks. I can make special requirements such as service truck experience, high voltage splicing experience, etc., I don't have to advertise, I don't have to interview, I don't have to be fooled by somebody lying about their experience. I already know what I'm getting (with some variability of course). If I don't like someone they send, I can send them right back and get a replacement.

Yes, union employees cost more money per hour, but when you take into account: (1) the work gets done right the first time, (2) no advertising, interview or practical test costs to hire, (3) no paid time sitting on the bench because they cost so much to hire you don't want to lay them off; then they actually end up being a bargain. I also feel good that I am able to pay the men a living wage and good benefits.

If you are having trouble finding good men (and women), I suggest you call the local IBEW hall and have a discussion. You might be very surprised how flexible they can be.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Skilled is the key word.

The Dodge Ram I bought a few months ago had the idiot light come on. Trouble code said Something plugged in the exhaust system, tech called for support. It is a diesel so IDK if it's called a catalytic converter or not. Warranty item, factory recall, and they replaced it as soon as one came in.
One quarter of the way into vacation it came on again. No warning message of impending doom, so finished trip. Same code. Tech has to call for support again. Replace part B now. Warranty. Replaced as soon as part came in.
Less than 30 miles later, idiot light. Same Code. On to part C, whatever that will be, once support returns call to Tech and part comes in.

We wait for computers to tell us what's wrong instead of understanding the complete process.
I am partly to blame because we do that for a living. Usually just takes a button pusher when we upgrade a process to PLC control.

Those manufacturers could as easily tell you what the trouble is. The fact that you have to run it into a shop or the dealer is a scam all the way.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I am not understanding the scam, it is warranty work.:huh:

Couldn't it as easily display the code on the dashboard and have the codes in the owners' manual?

The way it is today you have to take it to someone who has the decoder to tell you the O2 sensor is reporting as bad.
So instead of pulling into AutoZone you pull into some other place that costs millions for land and a building with 5 layers of people all who need to earn an income and pay someone to tell you your $40 part is bad but they can fix it for $300+.

Warranty work is the exception.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Couldn't it as easily display the code on the dashboard and have the codes in the owners' manual?

The way it is today you have to take it to someone who has the decoder to tell you the O2 sensor is reporting as bad.
So instead of pulling into AutoZone you pull into some other place that costs millions for land and a building with 5 layers of people all who need to earn an income and pay someone to tell you your $40 part is bad but they can fix it for $300+.

Warranty work is the exception.

If you pull into Auto Zone they will pull the codes for free. :p

But yes I understand what you are getting at.
 
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