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Thread: Engineer vs EC

  1. #1
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    Engineer vs EC

    We have a project where none of the drawings have AFC calculation. The enginner didn't provide calculations to any drawings. Would the engineer or EC be responsible for supplying the calculation for service equipment. I always heard that EC are licensed installers not licensed engineers. I also understand it to that you bettwr hopeople your insurance company doesn't hear your designing electrical work and don't have enough or right insurance coverage. I don't understand why engineers always leave out the AFC calculation.

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    This can be a contentious issue. It really depends on the local laws.
    Here I know in CA and OR if you are the licensed contractor you can provide the drawings if you are the one performing the work. You could run afoul with your insurance if it is not covered. You probably need errors and omissions for design work.

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    I've always gotten them from the engineer or the PoCo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    This can be a contentious issue. It really depends on the local laws.
    Here I know in CA and OR if you are the licensed contractor you can provide the drawings if you are the one performing the work. You could run afoul with your insurance if it is not covered. You probably need errors and omissions for design work.

    That is great advise. Im not sure where you are in the field of electrical owner, master of record or just plain JM. If you were master of record what duties or responsibilities would you require as master of record if you ever got asked. I think just because your a master electrician that doesnt make you an estimator, business owner, project manager, or even a good electrician. so when your hired as a peg to fill a whole for an electrical shop to do business. what are some of the things to look out for as master of record for a shop?

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    I dont think it is specifically any certain person's responsibility to do the FC Calcs, unless local law is such that a PE is required. If a PE is contracted to do the design, seems like he should provide FC.

    In Washington, I believe as a master electrican, I can design anything I want and no engineer is required. I am sure there are places it is different.

    I have never heard of being insured for "design work" or been asked by an insurance company if I will be doing design.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    I dont think it is specifically any certain person's responsibility to do the FC Calcs, unless local law is such that a PE is required. If a PE is contracted to do the design, seems like he should provide FC.

    In Washington, I believe as a master electrican, I can design anything I want and no engineer is required. I am sure there are places it is different.

    I have never heard of being insured for "design work" or been asked by an insurance company if I will be doing design.
    I do agree if the EC had designed the job then they would be responsible if the engineer designed the work then he should provide all necessary data needed to complete work.

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    Just submit an RFI and ask him to submit the fault currents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mannyb View Post
    Would the engineer or EC be responsible for supplying the calculation for service equipment.
    Whichever one had it in their scope of work. If there were no details in the scope then you will have to clean up the assumption by asking one or the other to provide it, probably for a small phenomenal fee.
    BB+/BB=?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhall30 View Post
    Just submit an RFI and ask him to submit the fault currents.
    Thats what I would do.


    Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
    I dont think it is specifically any certain person's responsibility to do the FC Calcs, unless local law is such that a PE is required. If a PE is contracted to do the design, seems like he should provide FC.

    In Washington, I believe as a master electrican, I can design anything I want and no engineer is required. I am sure there are places it is different.

    I have never heard of being insured for "design work" or been asked by an insurance company if I will be doing design.
    Standard contractors liability insurance does not cover "Professional Liability" for any 'design build' work. The key there is 'design'. Your not insured as a designer. it costs us about 3k per year for our "Professional Liability insurance" that covers a design staff (EE, lighting designer / architect). How often are you going to get sued for a flawed 'design' as a small shop? Probably never. If you start bidding on utility or municipal work they typically ask for it.
    Comments based on 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tortuga View Post
    Thats what I would do.



    Standard contractors liability insurance does not cover "Professional Liability" for any 'design build' work. The key there is 'design'. Your not insured as a designer. it costs us about 3k per year for our "Professional Liability insurance" that covers a design staff (EE, lighting designer / architect). How often are you going to get sued for a flawed 'design' as a small shop? Probably never. If you start bidding on utility or municipal work they typically ask for it.
    I am not sure I agree with that. I think the difference is probably the distinction between "design that requires a PE" verseus just "design". I do lots of design in Washington State. There is no restriction and no requirement for different insurance. A client could certainly ask that the plans be stamped by a license and insured EE.
    Ethan Brush - East West Electric. NY, WA. MA

    "You can't generalize"

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