Combo AFCI/GFCI outlet use

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user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Can a combo AFCI/GFCI outlet be used in replacement of a AFCI breaker? Would like to use them in SAP kitchen circuits. Thanks

Maybe - you need to see ( from the 2014) 210.12 (2) thru (6) and if any of those apply. Why not just get the afci/gfci combo breakers, or do afci at panel, then gfci rec/ df where needed in kitchen.
 
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chris1971

Senior Member
Location
Usa
Can a combo AFCI/GFCI outlet be used in replacement of a AFCI breaker? Would like to use them in SAP kitchen circuits. Thanks

Do you mean a combination AFCI/GFCI receptacle? I haven't seen them available yet? Are they available for sale?
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Do you mean a combination AFCI/GFCI receptacle? I haven't seen them available yet? Are they available for sale?

Thought the same thing -I was answering from a "what if" standpoint, I haven't seen any either, only heard about their pending availability here and a few other places.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
We use them quite often. I heard they were coming out with a AFCI/GFCI receptacle. Any true to that rumor?

There was a thread fairly recently in which Al Hildenbrand had said he was informed that they would be available by summer or August or something, so they could have already made an appearance in some areas.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
We use them quite often. I heard they were coming out with a AFCI/GFCI receptacle. Any true to that rumor?
This is truth, not rumor. Locally, they are flying off the shelves at Graybar (can't speak for other vendors). You may have to put an order in to get yours after a restocking order.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Thanks. I'll check with my supplier on Monday.
Let us know if you find something other than Leviton available. I had learned at the Upper Midwest show that Cooper's (P&S) will also be coming out about now. . . and a Hubble device later this summer.
 

shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
You would still need an AFCI circuit breaker in the panel ahead of these devices according to NEC 2014, 210.12(A)(3) and 210.12(A)(4)d. requires "The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified as meeting the requirements for a system combination-type AFCI and shall be listed as such."

Now does anyone know if these new devices have the listing required by 210.12(A)(4)d.?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
You would still need an AFCI circuit breaker in the panel ahead of these devices according to NEC 2014, 210.12(A)(3) and 210.12(A)(4)d. requires "The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified as meeting the requirements for a system combination-type AFCI and shall be listed as such."

Now does anyone know if these new devices have the listing required by 210.12(A)(4)d.?


I am not sure what you are responding to but it appears you are mixing up two things. The section you are talking about where their is a listed afci breaker and listed afci receptacle as a system does not exist however the afci/gfci breaker meets the requirements of both afci and gfci for the circuit-- one breaker with both functions.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I am not sure what you are responding to but it appears you are mixing up two things. The section you are talking about where their is a listed afci breaker and listed afci receptacle as a system does not exist however the afci/gfci breaker meets the requirements of both afci and gfci for the circuit-- one breaker with both functions.
Dennis, this topic is about using an AFCI/GFCI receptacle instead of an AFCI breaker. The OP wants to use standard breakers and have all AFCI/GFCI protection at the receptacle.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Yes...thats what I talking about. I don't know of a product that complies with 210.12(A)(4)d.
There isn't one, and that section was to be removed, however it remains in the 2017 code as a result of the floor vote on a motion at the technical meeting last week in Las Vegas. It is interesting that there were a lot more people that voted on that motion than any of the other motions.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Dennis, this topic is about using an AFCI/GFCI receptacle instead of an AFCI breaker. The OP wants to use standard breakers and have all AFCI/GFCI protection at the receptacle.


Thanks for clarifying-- my bad

They would be good for remodel jobs....not new construction unless you ran mc to the first outlet

(5) If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel-armored Type
AC cables meeting the requirements of 250.118, metal
wireways, metal auxiliary gutters, and metal outlet and
junction boxes are installed for the portion of the
branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install
a listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet
to provide protection for the remaining portion of
the branch circuit.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
They would be good for remodel jobs....not new construction unless you ran mc to the first outlet

Totally agree. And also on simple receptacle replacements, especially ungrounded wiring method receptacle replacement. This is a huge cost saving to someone needing a simple receptacle to be "fixed".

I've already used the Leviton combo AFCI / GFCI receptacle for a rental license housing inspector written "install GFCI at existing kitchen grounded receptacle" repair requirement. Pleased inspector and pleased customer.
 
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