LED Tape Lights & Components

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mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
What experience do members of this forum have with LED tape lights and system components held in place only by tape?
I watched a video from one manufacturer or supplier and they held everything (except the transformer) up to the bottom of kitchen cabinets using tape. The light strips are adhesive backed, the splitter was adhesive backed and they also demonstrated holding excess wire coiled up with tape. This seems like a great way to hold everything in place until you get some real fasteners in place but I just don't see it holding for any reasonable period of time.

And are these products typically limited to indoor use only?

Aside from the tape, what is the service life of these products? Has anyone installed any of them and already gone back to replace them?

Are these systems considered "luminaires" under the NEC and therefore require NRTL listing?

Here's the video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeTTyyiRRZA&feature=youtu.be

Disclosure: We have no connection to this company. Someone used our timers with that company's outdoor products and mentioned them so I visited the website. They do have really cool outdoor lighting.
 

chris1971

Senior Member
Location
Usa
We install Diode LED brand led tape lights. We'll typically install them in an aluminum channel with a plastic diffuser that will attach to the aluminum channel. The channel can be attached using double stick tape however, we prefer to secure the channel with screws. We then install the LED tape light in the channel. This works well for us. Our biggest issue used to be with the LED tape connectors they used supply us with. They've improved them so, we haven't had issues with the new style. They also make led tape lighting for outdoor use. The type we use are encased in a clear silicone. Here is the link: www.diodeled.com
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
We've done about a dozen under cabinet lighting installs over the past nine months with the 16' rolls of LED tape. No issues with them coming undone/unglued, nor with our previously installed UC tape lights. The aluminum channel and lens kits do make for a cleaner, more professional looking job, and will also reduce glare off of the countertops as well as make the lights easier to clean.

As Chris wrote, the connectors/LED tape leads are the finicky part of the install and we dont rely on tape to secure them, nor excess wire.

Prepping the surface by removing dust and grease is easy enough with a rag and denatured/isopropyl alcohol.

Only failure we've had was a xfmr on a 24V system that was about 4 years old.

Check your tape strips for bad LEDs before you mount them.

We have only installed them indoors.

We've also only done 12V DC tapes, with a 120V to 12V transformer/driver typically mounted under the house. Ive heard of early xfmr failures of ones installed in attics. We use 20/2 in-wall rated cable to each strip and bring them all into a jbox under the house along with the lead from the secondary side of the xfmr. Withe the products we use, if you need more than 16' of light you will need a second xfmr.

Last time I checked prices, Amazon and ebay were substantially cheaper than supply houses. We got a xfmr, a 16' roll of LED tape and a bag of leads for ~$55 shipped.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
What experience do members of this forum have with LED tape lights and system components held in place only by tape?
I watched a video from one manufacturer or supplier and they held everything (except the transformer) up to the bottom of kitchen cabinets using tape. The light strips are adhesive backed, the splitter was adhesive backed and they also demonstrated holding excess wire coiled up with tape. This seems like a great way to hold everything in place until you get some real fasteners in place but I just don't see it holding for any reasonable period of time.

depends on whose tape it is.
the stuff i've used has 3M VHB tape on it.

make sure it's where you want it before you stick it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_fM5cqSODc
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I've installed quite a bit of led tape (ribbon, strip) over the past 4 years, and I've gone back on a few. Of course, there's been a lot of trial and error along the way to figuring out what works well and what doesn't.

My first ribbon job was 4 years ago. I installed 3 rolls (16' ea) on 5 schemes. The ribbon was from Kick Lighting and cost me $280 per roll. I had 5 magnetic transformers and 5 mag lovo dimmers at roughly $70 each. All together I spent $1500 or so with connectors

Then I started seeing ribbon on Amazon for crazy cheap, like $7.00 a roll. And connectors for $.50 and $6.00 transformers. Good grief, it's hard not to take a swing at that, just to see what it's about. Man, I can get on board with saving tons of money, but there's a considerable gamble in going cheap

Well, I've had very mixed results. As JFletcher alluded to, attics are a no-no for cheap electronics. I had an attic transformer burn up in summer heat. No issues with better quality replacement.

I had one install that had every issue in the book with little clip-on connectors. It didn't help that the install was horrible (freelance help). That ribbon also had a weird greenish hue though it was supposed to be 3000k. And the ribbon was always unsticking from the underside of the cabinet. I actually learned a lot about ribbon from this fail. Clip-on connectors aren't always great. Aluminum channel is always better than sticking ribbon to cabinetry. Cheap 3000k ribbon almost always has a green hue. Color seems to be much nicer with 2700k. If ribbon isn't made with 3M tape, don't use it. I replaced everything on this job after 3rd call back. With aluminum channel also

I just got a call from a restaurant where I used ribbon in the menu board a couple years ago. Transformer was acting erratic. And I discovered about 10% of the diodes were burned out. I replaced with integrated led tubes

There are all sorts of led sizes: 3528, 5050, 3014, 7020, 5630, 2835 and more - and they all behave differently. And wattage/lumens varies greatly from one to the next. So does heat. I used some 5630 ribbon that gets about 25 lumens per led. Compare that to 3528 that has about 4 lumens per led. But that 5630 gets downright hot. I've used 2835 that gets about 15 lumens per led, and it's only mildly warm.

Bottom line for me - spend a little more on the ribbon. $25 per roll is usually decent stuff if you're buying online. Use aluminum channel. It helps dissipate heat, and ribbon sticks to it better. And looks cleaner. Solder your wires if you can. Don't have to, but it's sure. Don't load an electronic driver more than about 75%. It will like you better

There's more, but I won't write a book. All in all, I've had good success with ribbon. But it can be finicky if you go cheaper.
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
Occupation
Electrician
I've got my first LED ribbon under cabinet lighting project underway. This is new construction. I've got three, separate segments of cabinets involved. Here's what I did and of course I'm open to comments, good or bad. I installed a 10x10x4 junction box in the wall of a nearby closet. I ran my 120 volt, 14-2 switch leg to the Junction box along with 3, 14-2 home runs from each segment of cabinets. The Junction box will house the low voltage drivers. The ribbon tape, Nova Flex, is custom made from the measurements I submit after the cabinets are installed. The ribbon tape comes with a pre soldered lead that will need to be spliced to my individual home runs at each cabinet. This brings me to my question.........Do I splice the 14-2 switch leg to the lead wire with crimp connectors and try to hide them under the cabinet or do I install a junction box inside the cabinet for the splice and run the lead wire down through the cabinet bottom to the ribbon tape? I will be there when the cabinets are installed so I can have the switch leg either come through the cabinet bottom like we do for inch lights or I can have it enter inside the cabinet and into the junction box where the splice can take place. I just don't know if my customer will like having exposed junction boxes in three of her cabinets.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I've got my first LED ribbon under cabinet lighting project underway. This is new construction. I've got three, separate segments of cabinets involved. Here's what I did and of course I'm open to comments, good or bad. I installed a 10x10x4 junction box in the wall of a nearby closet. I ran my 120 volt, 14-2 switch leg to the Junction box along with 3, 14-2 home runs from each segment of cabinets. The Junction box will house the low voltage drivers. The ribbon tape, Nova Flex, is custom made from the measurements I submit after the cabinets are installed. The ribbon tape comes with a pre soldered lead that will need to be spliced to my individual home runs at each cabinet. This brings me to my question.........Do I splice the 14-2 switch leg to the lead wire with crimp connectors and try to hide them under the cabinet or do I install a junction box inside the cabinet for the splice and run the lead wire down through the cabinet bottom to the ribbon tape? I will be there when the cabinets are installed so I can have the switch leg either come through the cabinet bottom like we do for inch lights or I can have it enter inside the cabinet and into the junction box where the splice can take place. I just don't know if my customer will like having exposed junction boxes in three of her cabinets.

Having the driver in a covered jbox may lead to it overheating, and it would be a code violation to have 12 & 120V conductors in the same jbox w/o a divider, which you probably cant install. If it's cord and plug, you could plug it into a switched receptacle, have the driver next to it free-air, and jbox the splices to your 14/2 cabinet runs. You can get those small/shallow 2 x 4 boxes for the cabinets or make the splice open air if you can hide it well and make it look decent.
 

A/A Fuel GTX

Senior Member
Location
WI & AZ
Occupation
Electrician
Having the driver in a covered jbox may lead to it overheating, and it would be a code violation to have 12 & 120V conductors in the same jbox w/o a divider, which you probably cant install. If it's cord and plug, you could plug it into a switched receptacle, have the driver next to it free-air, and jbox the splices to your 14/2 cabinet runs. You can get those small/shallow 2 x 4 boxes for the cabinets or make the splice open air if you can hide it well and make it look decent.

I figured that the 10X10X4 junction box would be large enough for heat dissipation. I also figured that the leads on the drivers would have 600 volt insulation, like a ballast, making the two voltages in one box OK without a divider. Not sure I'm liking this concept with all the complications involved. May just revert to Xenon or self contained LED fixtures if I can talk my customer out of the ribbon method.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Having the driver in a covered jbox may lead to it overheating, and it would be a code violation to have 12 & 120V conductors in the same jbox w/o a divider, which you probably cant install.

I am confused, I have installed literally 100s of LED drivers and every single one of them requires an enclosure.

Furthermore the input and output of a device can be in the same enclosure without dividers.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
I figured that the 10X10X4 junction box would be large enough for heat dissipation. I also figured that the leads on the drivers would have 600 volt insulation, like a ballast, making the two voltages in one box OK without a divider. Not sure I'm liking this concept with all the complications involved. May just revert to Xenon or self contained LED fixtures if I can talk my customer out of the ribbon method.

A metal box not set in insulation and in an avg ambient temp environment might be ok. Xe bulbs are expensive and have poor life compared to LED.

Once you do a few tape strip lights they get a lot easier. As JamesL mentioned, the connectors to the tape are the hard part. Since your leads are factory assembled, and you're not having to fish wire, you're practically 2/3rds done time-wise
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
For kitchens, I try to put receptacle for transformer under sink. It's already a mess under there, just use a plug-in transformer and open-air lovo splice.

That transformer JFletcher pictured already has a decent screw terminal block attached.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
I installed some for a friend a year or so ago; the tape is still holding. He ordered them from superbrightleds.com ..... The driver was cord connected, and the tape strips all had connectors. I plugged it in to the microwave recep above the range and routed all the wiring in gaps between the cabinets. They are remote controlled with variable color temp setting. It turned out pretty nice.

He's building a new house now and we're going to install them again under the cabinets and in the trey ceiling trim.


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