Pool bonding question

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nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Ok everyone i have been reading up on pool bonding . And next week im going to be doing a pool for my brother it will be my first time and i would like to do it right. So its an inground steel framed pool from what i gather im going to have to bond all the posts on the pool back to the pump and all metal parts associated then to a ground rod. The pool installer is supplying a relay panel that i will need to feed from the main service i will be running and 6/3 mc so i can ground that panel as well . My questions are
1 do i bond the pool and pool parts to ground bar in panel
2 do i need eqipotential grid around the pool
And there are no metal fences or anything else metal anywhere near the pool all fences are pvc light niche is also plastic.
Any input would be greatly appreciated and if anymore info is needed please let me know thanks evreyone

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Redcliffe

Member
Location
NJ USA
Read 680.26 in its entirety.
the #8 solid conductor that is run around the pool is terminated at the grounding lug on the pump motor.
It must be bonded to the steel walls of the pool at minimum of 4 locations.
I could tell you more, but than I would be spoiling you.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
As noted.. review 680.26
One thing you will find is no mention of any ground rod. You are bonding ie: connecting parts together, you are not grounding.
What voltage is the light fixture ? Many wet niche fixtures appear to be all plastic but have bonding straps withing the housing.
 

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
If the pool has 120 volt lighting pay attention to the requirements for wet nitch lighting. It is hard to correct after the pool is filled with water
 

Weslondon

Member
Location
Holyoke,Ma
I will be doing a fair amount of work at a house being renovated. Has an above ground pool. Was "wired' by a friend. I'll be looking at this closely.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
As mentioned, read 680, especially the beginning through the end of pool section.
I just want to confirm and maybe add to what was said already.

I have done 8-15 pools in two years (more pools spread out but increased last two years)

Learn or apply what you already know about grounding general wiring.
Forget all that when it comes to equipotential bonding. As Augie47 said, you are bonding, not grounding.
But there are also grounding rules that differ from general wiring, so read all that.

With that said, yes, you have to run the bond wire around the pool 18"-24" from inside wall of pool & 4"-6" below subgrade

on your pool, you need to choose 4 points, equally spaced, and run a jumper from the bond ring to those points

A jumper, or continuous run if possible, should also go to pump motor, any other equipment associated with the pool such as heater, salt generator, etc.
Also, if using a timer and it's case is metal you need to bond that. Anything metal within 5' of pool

Very important to bond ladders, handrails, & diving boards if any of these have metal. Some of these are plastic but have metal mounts. The mounts will have lugs. If there are two sides to a ladder or rail, each side will have a lug to bond to. Do not just bond one side. That would be worse than no bonding.

The water also has to be bonded. This can be accomplished in many ways. The most convenient way is if the ladder is metal it will count as the water bond provided you bonded it and it stays in the water. You can "Google" products made/listed for water bonds.

Finally, you do not need to run the bonding wire back to the panel. Driving a ground rod does nothing and is not mentioned in the code.

If the lights are plastic and also low voltage you don't have to bond them but make sure of that before filling the pool. Some niches are plastic but the ring holding in the light is metal, so that needs bonding. These are usually 120V lights. Most pool lights these days are low voltage LED and require no bonding.

This is not "all inclusive" but will aid you when you read 680 and especially 680.26.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
As mentioned, read 680, especially the beginning through the end of pool section.
I just want to confirm and maybe add to what was said already.

I have done 8-15 pools in two years (more pools spread out but increased last two years)

Learn or apply what you already know about grounding general wiring.
Forget all that when it comes to equipotential bonding. As Augie47 said, you are bonding, not grounding.
But there are also grounding rules that differ from general wiring, so read all that.

With that said, yes, you have to run the bond wire around the pool 18"-24" from inside wall of pool & 4"-6" below subgrade

on your pool, you need to choose 4 points, equally spaced, and run a jumper from the bond ring to those points

A jumper, or continuous run if possible, should also go to pump motor, any other equipment associated with the pool such as heater, salt generator, etc.
Also, if using a timer and it's case is metal you need to bond that. Anything metal within 5' of pool

Very important to bond ladders, handrails, & diving boards if any of these have metal. Some of these are plastic but have metal mounts. The mounts will have lugs. If there are two sides to a ladder or rail, each side will have a lug to bond to. Do not just bond one side. That would be worse than no bonding.

The water also has to be bonded. This can be accomplished in many ways. The most convenient way is if the ladder is metal it will count as the water bond provided you bonded it and it stays in the water. You can "Google" products made/listed for water bonds.

Finally, you do not need to run the bonding wire back to the panel. Driving a ground rod does nothing and is not mentioned in the code.

If the lights are plastic and also low voltage you don't have to bond them but make sure of that before filling the pool. Some niches are plastic but the ring holding in the light is metal, so that needs bonding. These are usually 120V lights. Most pool lights these days are low voltage LED and require no bonding.

This is not "all inclusive" but will aid you when you read 680 and especially 680.26.
The pool I just did I ran the bare#8 solid around at 18-24" and jogged in at my 4 stanchions. One end hits the pump the other end will hit the water bond when they get the fitting. My question is for the stanchions I removed the bottom plastic cover, removed another screw and put my db ground lug there. Since those screws are short I replaced it with a longer sheet metal screw. Is that ok? One pool years ago the inspector wanted me to get stainless screws like the one I removed. I can still do that since I have to go back for the water bond, just wondering what you do.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The pool I just did I ran the bare#8 solid around at 18-24" and jogged in at my 4 stanchions. One end hits the pump the other end will hit the water bond when they get the fitting. My question is for the stanchions I removed the bottom plastic cover, removed another screw and put my db ground lug there. Since those screws are short I replaced it with a longer sheet metal screw. Is that ok? One pool years ago the inspector wanted me to get stainless screws like the one I removed. I can still do that since I have to go back for the water bond, just wondering what you do.

I would get some stainless hardware for any direct burial connection.
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Thanks evreyone for all your responses . The pool light will be a low voltage led light and there is no ladder the pool will have stadium type steps at one end.. any suggestions on how to bond the pool water without a ladder?

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augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Thanks evreyone for all your responses . The pool light will be a low voltage led light and there is no ladder the pool will have stadium type steps at one end.. any suggestions on how to bond the pool water without a ladder?

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There are many products available to handle the task. Here is one of them http://bondsafe680.com/inground.html
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Is it an accepted practice to have the pool installer install such a fitting so i dont have the liability of damaging the integrity of the pool ie . Holding water,leaking

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Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
The pool I just did I ran the bare#8 solid around at 18-24" and jogged in at my 4 stanchions. One end hits the pump the other end will hit the water bond when they get the fitting. My question is for the stanchions I removed the bottom plastic cover, removed another screw and put my db ground lug there. Since those screws are short I replaced it with a longer sheet metal screw. Is that ok? One pool years ago the inspector wanted me to get stainless screws like the one I removed. I can still do that since I have to go back for the water bond, just wondering what you do.

You need stainless screws-washers-nuts.

Most likely the inspector won't allow sheet metal screws as they are not allowed for grounding. I know this is bonding but most apply the same rules.
It's hard to do but you can attach a screw/bolt to a fish tape, rod, etc. and fish it down and through either an existing hole or one you drill. Then put a lug on the screw and lock nut or lock washer and regular nut.
It's always easier when you can remove an existing bolt and put in a longer stainless one but most AGP don't have much to attach to.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
As noted.. review 680.26
One thing you will find is no mention of any ground rod. You are bonding ie: connecting parts together, you are not grounding.
What voltage is the light fixture ? Many wet niche fixtures appear to be all plastic but have bonding straps withing the housing.

bond (to NEC requirements), w/ earth rods, and tie it to service gnd. thats the best way from my view. the EGC lug on most motor frames are tied to GND anyways (should be). earth rods can help with surface or below surface voltage that can come from many sources. with my own manufactured spa, put into the ground via concrete vault, there are 3 10ft earth rods around perimeter of vault, there's a 100ft copper coil under vault floor slab (not in the slab, under it), and since i have ~10ft high steel posts around the spa each post is also bonded to the bond loop, all this copper is bonded together and to the bonding lug provided on spa, and then that bonding is tied directly to service gnd in the disconnect box.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
bond (to NEC requirements), w/ earth rods, and tie it to service gnd. thats the best way from my view. the EGC lug on most motor frames are tied to GND anyways (should be). earth rods can help with surface or below surface voltage that can come from many sources. with my own manufactured spa, put into the ground via concrete vault, there are 3 10ft earth rods around perimeter of vault, there's a 100ft copper coil under vault floor slab (not in the slab, under it), and since i have ~10ft high steel posts around the spa each post is also bonded to the bond loop, all this copper is bonded together and to the bonding lug provided on spa, and then that bonding is tied directly to service gnd in the disconnect box.


Drive rods if you want but it's not required or even suggested. Since you're just bonding everything associated with the pool or anything metal within 5' of pool, there is no need to take the bond back to the panel.
It's not called "equipotential grounding":happyno:
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Drive rods if you want but it's not required or even suggested. Since you're just bonding everything associated with the pool or anything metal within 5' of pool, there is no need to take the bond back to the panel.
It's not called "equipotential grounding":happyno:

right, not required, doesnt mean i shouldnt. i didnt say panel, i said disco which is usually much closer. with just the bonding it still is possible that the bonding gets to some volts, perhaps 120v, and at the edge of bonding you bridge the gap between bonded and not bonded, and zap. whats the extra cost vs the additional safety factor, well worth it in my view.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
right, not required, doesnt mean i shouldnt. i didnt say panel, i said disco which is usually much closer. with just the bonding it still is possible that the bonding gets to some volts, perhaps 120v, and at the edge of bonding you bridge the gap between bonded and not bonded, and zap. whats the extra cost vs the additional safety factor, well worth it in my view.
Actually the real purpose of the bonding is to energize the pool equipment and the water with the neutral to earth voltage that is on the system. Adding ground rods does not improve the bonding function.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Adding ground rods does not improve the bonding function.
the earth rods are there to direct any surface or under surface voltage into the ground. large joules that travel across the surface and into the bonding (w/o rods) may/can wreak havoc on the items connected to the bonding. the rods only help to divert the joules into the ground.

equipotential bonding vs bonded to gnd (w/ earth rods), thats how i see it, and i like the latter better.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The idea of the equipotential bonding is to keep everything at the same potential. I don't see what the rods will due-- take voltage above ground and put it deeper???? That makes no sense as electricity wlll travel every path back to the source
 
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