240V Refrigerator?

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I was talking with a family member who said that they needed a new 240V circuit installed in their basement. When I asked what it was going to be used for, I was told that it was for a recently acquired vintage 1950's Frigidaire refrigerator which they were told by the person who gave it to them that it ran on 240V. To be completely honest, I've never in my life come across, or even heard of a refrigerator running on 230/240V. If I were to see the appliance, I'd of course be able to tell right away. However being that I haven't seen it and have yet to find the time to, I told them that I found the likelihood of this being true to be highly unlikely, and basically that whoever told them this probably didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe given my age, I just haven't been exposed to enough vintage 50's-era appliances, and wonder if I could be wrong. But with the relatively low current draw a residential refrigerator's compressor circuit generally has (8-11A or so from my experience), I can't see how anything higher than 120V would likely have ever been needed, and therefore used.

Have any of you guys (especially some of the old-timers who may have a better recollection of the old Frigidaires) ever heard of typical residential two-compartment refrigerator/freezer running on 240?
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
I was talking with a family member who said that they needed a new 240V circuit installed in their basement. When I asked what it was going to be used for, I was told that it was for a recently acquired vintage 1950's Frigidaire refrigerator which they were told by the person who gave it to them that it ran on 240V. To be completely honest, I've never in my life come across, or even heard of a refrigerator running on 230/240V. If I were to see the appliance, I'd of course be able to tell right away. However being that I haven't seen it and have yet to find the time to, I told them that I found the likelihood of this being true to be highly unlikely, and basically that whoever told them this probably didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe given my age, I just haven't been exposed to enough vintage 50's-era appliances, and wonder if I could be wrong. But with the relatively low current draw a residential refrigerator's compressor circuit generally has (8-11A or so from my experience), I can't see how anything higher than 120V would likely have ever been needed, and therefore used.

Have any of you guys (especially some of the old-timers who may have a better recollection of the old Frigidaires) ever heard of typical residential two-compartment refrigerator/freezer running on 240?

May have been something originally manufactured here for use overseas- if a true 240, find the HZ for this contraption.
 
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David Goodman

Senior Member
Location
Pahrump, NV, USA
I was talking with a family member who said that they needed a new 240V circuit installed in their basement. When I asked what it was going to be used for, I was told that it was for a recently acquired vintage 1950's Frigidaire refrigerator which they were told by the person who gave it to them that it ran on 240V. To be completely honest, I've never in my life come across, or even heard of a refrigerator running on 230/240V. If I were to see the appliance, I'd of course be able to tell right away. However being that I haven't seen it and have yet to find the time to, I told them that I found the likelihood of this being true to be highly unlikely, and basically that whoever told them this probably didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe given my age, I just haven't been exposed to enough vintage 50's-era appliances, and wonder if I could be wrong. But with the relatively low current draw a residential refrigerator's compressor circuit generally has (8-11A or so from my experience), I can't see how anything higher than 120V would likely have ever been needed, and therefore used.

Have any of you guys (especially some of the old-timers who may have a better recollection of the old Frigidaires) ever heard of typical residential two-compartment refrigerator/freezer running on 240?

I reposted this on HVACTalk because I don't have an answer for you, and I found the question intriguing. I'll let you know what they come up with.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Possibly mistaking a 20 amp 120 volt plug with a 240 volt one?

A two prong version of this, maybe?

20+amp+plug.jpg
 
User100, that's a very good point that didn't occur to me before. The operating frequency would tell me quite a bit. If freq. is spec'd at 50 Hz on the nameplate, then it would at least make some sense that the unit would likely have been manufactured for use in Europe where everything is 230V/50Hz. Problem will be explaining over the phone where they can find the data on the unit (not the most tech savvy of folks if you can imagine). But might be worth a try as not only will this answer the operating frequency question, but the voltage as well. Another thing I could do, and I didn't think of this before, would be to have them take the plug of any standard 120V appliance such as a table-top radio, and hold this up next to the refrigerator's plug to see if they can tell me whether or not the refrigerator plug is of equal size, or if it is a lot larger, indicating a 250V rated plug. Obviously if its the same size as a standard 125V plug, then the whole "it runs on 240V" that they were originally fed would be BS.

K8MHZ, that's also another possibility that the initial owner who gave them the unit got confused by a 120V 20A plug. Thanks for the reply and pic.
 
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user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Possibly mistaking a 20 amp 120 volt plug with a 240 volt one?

A two prong version of this, maybe?

20+amp+plug.jpg

Entirely plausible- due to its age, the thing could very well have an old 120 volt 2 prong tandem blade plug (to the op: both prongs are flat, or one is and there is no egc pin). Or at some point someone could have used whatever was "handy" and replaced the original cord cap w/ the wrong cap, (original 1-15 became a 5-20 etc). leading to the confusion.
 
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Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I seriously doubt Frigidaire made "export" versions in the '50s. Yes, they are now just a brand name of Electrolux out of Sweden, but remember, at that time they were part of GM. There was no world outside of North America for companies like GM in the 50s, they had enough on their hands keeping up with the post war baby boom demand here.

More likely it was a commercial refer for a restaurant or grocer, or the person saying that was not savvy on the 20A plug issue (which was a great point by the way).

Why anyone would want to actually run a refer from the 50's at any voltage is beyond me. It's likely very inefficient by today's standards and will cost them a lot of money to operate, then likely die in short order. But that's not your concern, just do their project and cash their check! Or because it's a relative, are they asking you to do it for free? If so, you DON'T want to do it twice!
 
Or even better yet (than what I said in the last reply). I'll just ask them to try and plug it into any standard wall receptacle. If they can, then it's 120V. If I get a "huh? It doesn't seem to fit!" response. Then either it's 240, or a 125V/20A plug, which I'll be sure to ask whether it didn't fit simply because it was too big, or because one of the prongs was sideways. Maybe I'll just hang low until I get a call from them again about the 240V circuit. Then at that point I may have the time to go out there and see for myself what it is.

Thanks again.
 
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My first thought as well.

I think it's the novelty of the unit more than anything. Which perhaps I'm a little biased to as well given I'm all about the "Mad Men" styled home look. From what I gathered, it's not like it will be their main refrigerator or anything. More of just a basement conversation piece as well as a place to keep extra beer.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Way back in the late 70s in the first "energy crisis", the local PoCo here, PG&E, was so bent on getting rid of old wasteful "garage" refrigerators for soda and beer (most of which were 50s and 60s vintage at the time) that they offered a $75 bounty on them. At first, people somehow got the impression that they could just wheel them out to the curb and PG&E would pick them up, then deduct the $75 from their bill. Rumor had it that this came from a TV reporter (which wouldn't surprise me). But what you were supposed to do was physically take them to PG&E's service yards, one of which was down the street from me, and get cash. So since I had a pickup, some buddies and I would drive around neighborhoods, pick up the refers and deliver them to PG&E for the cash! I suppose the people who put them on the curb eventually got angry about never getting their credit, because PG&E changed to stop giving out cash, but for that one summer, we made out like bandits.
 
I seriously doubt Frigidaire made "export" versions in the '50s. Yes, they are now just a brand name of Electrolux out of Sweden, but remember, at that time they were part of GM. There was no world outside of North America for companies like GM in the 50s, they had enough on their hands keeping up with the post war baby boom demand here.

More likely it was a commercial refer for a restaurant or grocer, or the person saying that was not savvy on the 20A plug issue (which was a great point by the way).

Why anyone would want to actually run a refer from the 50's at any voltage is beyond me. It's likely very inefficient by today's standards and will cost them a lot of money to operate, then likely die in short order. But that's not your concern, just do their project and cash their check! Or because it's a relative, are they asking you to do it for free? If so, you DON'T want to do it twice!

With my relatives, it's usually a 'Burgers and Dogs on the Grill' type paycheck, lol. I suppose that's at least one step up from free.
 
Way back in the late 70s in the first "energy crisis", the local PoCo here, PG&E, was so bent on getting rid of old wasteful "garage" refrigerators for soda and beer (most of which were 50s and 60s vintage at the time) that they offered a $75 bounty on them. At first, people somehow got the impression that they could just wheel them out to the curb and PG&E would pick them up, then deduct the $75 from their bill. Rumor had it that this came from a TV reporter (which wouldn't surprise me). But what you were supposed to do was physically take them to PG&E's service yards, one of which was down the street from me, and get cash. So since I had a pickup, some buddies and I would drive around neighborhoods, pick up the refers and deliver them to PG&E for the cash! I suppose the people who put them on the curb eventually got angry about never getting their credit, because PG&E changed to stop giving out cash, but for that one summer, we made out like bandits.

Sounds like that was a nice idea for some extra cash. Thankfully that was back before the Clean Air Act too. Nowadays I doubt any POCO would ever consider providing cash bounties for old refrigeration equip given the EPA mandated Freon recovery & reclamation fees for R-12 on older discarded unit. Leave it to the government to take the fun out everything.
 

David Goodman

Senior Member
Location
Pahrump, NV, USA
I was talking with a family member who said that they needed a new 240V circuit installed in their basement. When I asked what it was going to be used for, I was told that it was for a recently acquired vintage 1950's Frigidaire refrigerator which they were told by the person who gave it to them that it ran on 240V. To be completely honest, I've never in my life come across, or even heard of a refrigerator running on 230/240V. If I were to see the appliance, I'd of course be able to tell right away. However being that I haven't seen it and have yet to find the time to, I told them that I found the likelihood of this being true to be highly unlikely, and basically that whoever told them this probably didn't know what they were talking about. Maybe given my age, I just haven't been exposed to enough vintage 50's-era appliances, and wonder if I could be wrong. But with the relatively low current draw a residential refrigerator's compressor circuit generally has (8-11A or so from my experience), I can't see how anything higher than 120V would likely have ever been needed, and therefore used.

Have any of you guys (especially some of the old-timers who may have a better recollection of the old Frigidaires) ever heard of typical residential two-compartment refrigerator/freezer running on 240?

Here is a response from an HVACTalk member who is from Australia.

"That's all we have here in OZ is 240v 50Hz single phase. 415v 3 phase.
They could look at the sticker on the compressor & this should tell them the nominal voltage ?"
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
If this fridge is in a location where a GFCI is required, its very likely it will trip the GFCI due to high leakage.
My poco is giving away new fridges if you exchange an old one, and they deliver - haul the old one away.
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
Yep, ya betcha!

PSE DELIVERED a new fridge to a neighbor and hauled the old one away, ZERO cost. Valid for 1992 and older fridges.

PSE paid 100% (but not the sales tax) for GE hybrid water heater also for me.

PSE will also deliver new and haul away old wash machine made before 1997 or so, no charge (except added into tariffs) Did not use that offer as DW says the new wash machines are pretty worthless as far as convienience and 'warshing' capability.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
If this fridge is in a location where a GFCI is required, its very likely it will trip the GFCI due to high leakage.
My poco is giving away new fridges if you exchange an old one, and they deliver - haul the old one away.

Holy cow, you're right! They give you the entire fridge! That's a heck of a lot better than even the $75 in 1079 money.
https://pse.com/savingsandenergycenter/Rebates/Appliances/Pages/Free-Appliance-Replacement.aspx

I'm jealous. I just bought a new washer and dryer and gave away my old Kenmore set that I bought used in 1983. The new ones cost me $3k and are crap compared to the washing job of the old Kenmores. But here it's about the water savings too; those old ones used a lot of water and the fines add up quickly here.
 
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