Romex Underground

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Can I run romex underground in pvc (short distance- 15')? Everything seems water tight for the most part. Ref 334.12 mentions moisture, but...

This topic is becoming an ongoing shop discussion...where some ahj's ok it, and some don't.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
fleetfeet said:
This topic is becoming an ongoing shop discussion...where some ahj's ok it, and some don't.

Here's the ongoing explanation: the interior of a conduit is not a location; where the conduit is located is. If the conduit is outdoors or underground, so are the conductors inside it.
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
fleetfeet said:
Can I run romex underground in pvc (short distance- 15')? Everything seems water tight for the most part. Ref 334.12 mentions moisture, but...

This topic is becoming an ongoing shop discussion...where some ahj's ok it, and some don't.

Water tight or not, even if you're in a continuous piece of liquidtite, condensation could be an issue.
If you're in PVC, I would guess that most AHJs will say no.
If you're in a short piece of continuous liquidtite, who knows.

David
 

Oakey

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Are we saying here is that NM is not even ok for short runs on the outside surface of a house? Above ground that is<<<
 
georgestolz said:
I agree with Bryan. The AHJ's should not be accepting NM underground. 300.5(B) leaves little room for interpretation.


George... the guy that is using every bit of semantics possible when reading the NEC... are you sure you actually meant "leaves little room for interpretation"... you actually left the door open by saying "little" ;) . Lets tighten up your responses please:p
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Oakey said:
Are we saying here is that NM is not even ok for short runs on the outside surface of a house? Above ground that is<<<

Short, long...makes no difference.
The key is the actual location - will it be in a wet location?
 

Oakey

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
From one floor to another mostly and not exposed to damage. I have an big interest in this topic as I do a lot of new installs for an A/C contractor (Aka up from the basemnt to the attic) If I have to install UF in pipe for my runs I have a lot of phone calls to make . However I would not run NM underground. ( BTW srry if I changed this thread)
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Oakey said:
From one floor to another mostly and not exposed to damage. I have an big interest in this topic as I do a lot of new installs for an A/C contractor (Aka up from the basemnt to the attic) If I have to install UF in pipe for my runs I have a lot of phone calls to make . However I would not run NM underground

That's probably a wet location...

Article 100
Location, Wet.
Installations under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
What are they gonna do with all the N.M. cable that was submerged in the great flood down south??

My guess , most will stay just where it is.

Is Louisiana a wet , damp or dry location???
Just kidding , I have run N.M. in conduit outside, I do not make it a practice because I do believe it is a violation.

If the inside of a pipe is not a location, neither is the inside of an A.C. disconnect .N.M. cable is run to them all the time where I work, same thing with disconnects for hot tubs on single family dwellings, same for outside receptacles , & light fixtures.While it may violate the actual words it seems to be one which the inspectors and electricians can live with. It could be that some folks think a little bit more n.m in a wet/damp location.. ain't really so bad,.. is it??
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
I have usually considered myself a fairly knowledgeable electrician. And, I have also believed the City where I do most of my work to be fairly sophisticated and compliant to the NEC.

Boy - do I have a lot to learn. :eek:

In new construction, when we stub out a A/C disconnect, hot tub, outdoor outlet, or fixture, there are a few inches of NM for the branch circuit that pass through the wall into the enclosure.

In remodel or new installation on an existing home. Often, there is a few feet of romex in a PVC that run vertical out of the eve to the new enclosure.


Everybody does it here and it always passes. :confused:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Minuteman said:
In new construction, when we stub out a A/C disconnect, hot tub, outdoor outlet, or fixture, there are a few inches of NM for the branch circuit that pass through the wall into the enclosure.

It is up for debate.

On the one hand many of us will say a raceway on the outside of a building is a wet location. The NEC requires these raceways to drain which suggests they also think it is a wet location,

Say I run NM from inside out to a disconect switch and the inspector says no.

"The inside of that box is a wet location just like an outside raceway".

Great now I have to find some fuses, breakers, switches etc. that I can install inside that enclosure that the inspector says is a wet location.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Great now I have to find some fuses, breakers, switches etc. that I can install inside that enclosure that the inspector says is a wet location.
If the enclosure is a Type 3R, then the area below the live parts can be a wet location. The standard only requires that the exposed live parts remain dry.
Don
 

dnem

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
Oakey said:
Are we saying here is that NM is not even ok for short runs on the outside surface of a house? Above ground that is<<<

M. D. said:
If the inside of a pipe is not a location, neither is the inside of an A.C. disconnect .N.M. cable is run to them all the time where I work, same thing with disconnects for hot tubs on single family dwellings, same for outside receptacles , & light fixtures.While it may violate the actual words it seems to be one which the inspectors and electricians can live with. It could be that some folks think a little bit more n.m in a wet/damp location.. ain't really so bad,.. is it??

"short runs"

"ain't really so bad,.. is it?"

It seems that I usually hear different wording.
Debates that hang on what "violate the actual words"

I'm not directing these words toward either Oakey or MD. I'm just commenting about the general direction that this message board tends to take.

I think some people believe the code was written as a restriction on inspectors that limits them to enforcement according to the precise individual meaning of the words used in any particular section. But contractors can slide thru as long as they're close to what the wording says.

David
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
don_resqcapt19 said:
If the enclosure is a Type 3R, then the area below the live parts can be a wet location. The standard only requires that the exposed live parts remain dry.
Don

Don you know that I know that..it does not mean it is not somewhat conflicting if an inspector says NM Above those parts is not allowed.;)
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Bob,
Don you know that I know that..it does not mean it is not somewhat conflicting if an inspector says NM Above those parts is not allowed.
I guess that my point is that in a 'typical" installation, the NM would be in the area below the live parts and in a wet location.
Don
 
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