Aluminum vs Copper

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brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I had chimed about Aluminum adaptor connectors here is one of the adaptor pictures I was looking for. As I had mentioned we see this issue all the time with aluminum and copper when this is utilized as a reducer for the copper. I am not sure if it is a connector issue, a improper hypress tool or improper preperation of the conductor (which really should not be an issue with copper in this circumstance).


This is not the best photo, as there are other issues with these connections as you'll see.

MACADAPT.jpg



MACADAPT1.jpg
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Brian,
Was the current any where near equal on those connections? I would assume so as it appears to be on a GE MCC vertical bus section, but it doesn't look like any factory connection that I have seen.
Don
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Don I would have to go back and pull the IR report to verify that. This was from a 2005 job and we switched cameras, secretaries (another issue) and software Corel to MS Word.
 

rattus

Senior Member
electricmanscott said:
Absolute nonsense. :roll:

This debate is right up there with ground up or down.

Properly installed aluminum is just as good as copper these days.

You are answering the original question by saying that aluminum has to be properly installed. No argument there. Now will you admit that aluminum requires a bit more skill and attention than does copper?
 

bstoin

Senior Member
As regards the picture...I have seen copper wire do the same thing many times. The burnt connection has nothing at all to do with whether it's copper or aluminum.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Rattus: No, just a by a professional, we see this same problem with copper when utilized with a reducer adaptor. To fix this we cut off the adaptors and install the aluminum utilizing approved methods.

Does it take care and extra time yes, but so do installing lead coated intercell connectors, it comes with the job.
 

rattus

Senior Member
brian john said:
Rattus: No, just a by a professional, we see this same problem with copper when utilized with a reducer adaptor. To fix this we cut off the adaptors and install the aluminum utilizing approved methods.

Does it take care and extra time yes, but so do installing lead coated intercell connectors, it comes with the job.

Can't argue with that either.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
rattus said:
You are answering the original question by saying that aluminum has to be properly installed. No argument there. Now will you admit that aluminum requires a bit more skill and attention than does copper?


Copper wiring not properly installed is just as much of a hazard.

No I do not beleive it takes any more skill and attention than installing any other peice of elecirical equipment. If you know what you are doing and you do it correctly, installing [insert electrical term here] is perfectly safe. If you do not know what you are doing the potential is there for a problem.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Electechgeek said:
The only problem I can see is that the average homeowner has NO idea what they are doing while taking on home improvement jobs. Electrical Especially... If a home was originally built with AL, and a homeowner was replacing some form of Electrical equipment, light fixtures, rcpts etc. and replaced the equipment with anything that had Copper terms, they could easily burn down the home.

That is their problem. If we used this as a basis for our industry we'd all be candle makers.
 

sparky59

Senior Member
if aluminum conductors are properly cleaned, coated, and torqued they work great. I haven't had any problem in 18 yrs.
 

bsh

Senior Member
If aluminum cable is PROPERLY installed it can be very safe and reliable. If not installed properly then problems may reselt. Aluminum makes great soda cans
 

gwpowell

Member
I agree that properly installed Aluminum is as good as Copper, however the key is those words ?properly installed?. My wife?s grandmother was killed in a fire that was determined to have been caused by an improperly installed electrical service using Aluminum conductors. As with any other activity we must make ensure that qualified personnel are following best practice methods or the results can be disastrous.
 
electricmanscott said:
That is their problem. If we used this as a basis for our industry we'd all be candle makers.


I suppose you are right.. I was just implying that AL conductors should not be used in Residential applications just as a precaution.

But then again, precaution should always be taken when you have anything to do with Electrical design/planning or installation...
 

rattus

Senior Member
Semantics:

Semantics:

electricmanscott said:
:-? So improperly installed copper is ok? It isn't the wire that is the Problem it is the installation.

We are arguing semantics here. As I see it, there is a problem with aluminum wire. It corrodes and cold flows moreso than does copper. That is a problem. However, these problems have been solved by proper installation techniques and improved materials and devices.

No doubt Scott and his crews are professionals. No doubt they have been trained in the use of COPALUM splices. No doubt many competent electricians for whatever reason do not have this training. This is the extra knowledge and skill to which I have referred.

That being said, I must agree with Scott et al that properly installed aluminum wiring poses no undue hazard. Never said otherwise.
 
Electechgeek said:
the average homeowner has NO idea what they are doing while taking on home improvement jobs. If a home was originally built with AL, and a homeowner was replacing some form of Electrical equipment, light fixtures, rcpts etc. and replaced the equipment with anything that had Copper terms, they could easily burn down the home.


As with ALL construction, the final product is only as good as the safe practices behind the install. I am simply saying that if in Industrial/Commercial applications AL conductors could be a safe bet.. cost effectiveness is substantial. And as long as maintenece crews for these buildings are aware of the use of AL conductors they can almost eliminate the accidental use of equipment with the wrong termination type. Almost all Industrial/Commercial equipment is dual rated now anyways.

Residential however can be a bit touchy.. with all these home improvement shows you see on TV today, you can believe that the average joe will try and tackle any round the house job. And they will do this without truly understanding the precautions they should take. case in point.. fire.

It's not the conductor itself, just the idiot who messed with the system..
 

rattus

Senior Member
Just for fun:

Just for fun:

I am curious to know how many are knowledgeable in working with aluminum. Who can tell whether or not the following techniques are approved?

COPALUM?
Noalox?
Purple wirenuts?
Pigtailing?
None of the above?

It is also my understanding that aluminum is no longer used in branch circuits.

Now kids, listen up! Do not try this at home or anywhere else!!

No, this is not a DIY question!
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
rattus,
Contrary to what is commonly believed both COPALUM anf purple wirenuts are approved for alumimum. Both are used to make a copper pigtail to be landed on the devices. Alumimum conductors in the 15 and 20 amp ratings are not being manufactured so it is not available for use in small branch circuits.
Don
 
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