1/2" pancake boxes
- Thread starter LMaloney
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Not unless it says on it "listed for support of ceiling fans" or something similar. Unless of course it's design allows you to support the fan independently from the box.
Not unless it says on it "listed for support of ceiling fans" or something similar. Unless of course it's design allows you to support the fan independently from the box.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
There are fan rated pancake boxes.
If you have a standard box just drive the fan mounting screws into the wood that the box is mounted to.
There are fan rated pancake boxes.
If you have a standard box just drive the fan mounting screws into the wood that the box is mounted to.
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Exactly. Why ever buy a fan rated pancake box?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Answer- to satisfy all the electrical inspectors that neither visit here or similar sites, nor bother with a code book since they passed a jman test back in 1963. And they have that attitude " This is how I like it done". They still exist. We got at least one where I'm at.
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
macmikeman
look at it from the inspectors side, a fan rated pancake box takes the guess work out of how the contractor will support the fan, he does not have to worry about a fan being supported with sheetrock screws, roofing nails, the 8-32"s or worse, or be on site to remove the canopy for inspection.
macmikeman
look at it from the inspectors side, a fan rated pancake box takes the guess work out of how the contractor will support the fan, he does not have to worry about a fan being supported with sheetrock screws, roofing nails, the 8-32"s or worse, or be on site to remove the canopy for inspection.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
In this area, city inspectors remark the quantity of fan boxes during rough-in inspection, and make sure there is not a greater number ofr fans installed at final.
In this area, city inspectors remark the quantity of fan boxes during rough-in inspection, and make sure there is not a greater number ofr fans installed at final.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Larry do many EC`S try and add f/l after rough in and if they do wouldn`t they use a fan rated box??.The cost of retrofitting a switch and fan more than cover the cost of a rated box over a standard pancake box.
At the big O a rated box is cheaper than a stsndard pancake box,
But that is how they list it.
Or is your insp.that slow he needs to find pet peeves.
Larry do many EC`S try and add f/l after rough in and if they do wouldn`t they use a fan rated box??.The cost of retrofitting a switch and fan more than cover the cost of a rated box over a standard pancake box.
At the big O a rated box is cheaper than a stsndard pancake box,
But that is how they list it.Or is your insp.that slow he needs to find pet peeves.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
It only moves the guess work from the fan to the box.
Now the inspector must concern themselves with the box to structure attachment.
But none of that matters, the NEC does not require that the EC use a fan box so the inspector has to deal with it.
It does?
It only moves the guess work from the fan to the box.
Now the inspector must concern themselves with the box to structure attachment.
But none of that matters, the NEC does not require that the EC use a fan box so the inspector has to deal with it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
The NEC does not require a fan box to be used at a fan.
[ November 19, 2005, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Larry is there a local amendment to the NEC?
The NEC does not require a fan box to be used at a fan.
Support the fan from the structure and the need for a fan box is not applicable.
[ November 19, 2005, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
I never use a fan box except for Arlington's block/ box for use at a cathedral ceiling peak. I have a certain way of installing a fan on a 4" octagon where it is completely legal, and for me is better and faster. I do not run into problems with sloped applications as I have with some fan rated boxes. It is completely legal, and the inspector either has to trust that I've mounted it safely and properly, or look for himself. I've never even had an inspector question me on it. If an inspector is proceeding through a rough inspection looking for "what-if's", we could go on for days.
I never use a fan box except for Arlington's block/ box for use at a cathedral ceiling peak. I have a certain way of installing a fan on a 4" octagon where it is completely legal, and for me is better and faster. I do not run into problems with sloped applications as I have with some fan rated boxes. It is completely legal, and the inspector either has to trust that I've mounted it safely and properly, or look for himself. I've never even had an inspector question me on it. If an inspector is proceeding through a rough inspection looking for "what-if's", we could go on for days.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Whatcha got against roofing nails?
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Would you care to pass this method along? I've used pancakes and screwed right through the box and into the framing, which is legal. Mostly I use a Westinghouse plastic fan box or a "saddle box". I've never known a way to use a regular 4" octagon in a compliant way for fans. Fill me in...
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
UL's listing information
CEILING SUSPENDED FAN SUPPORT
A box, a box with bracket, or bar hanger intended for support of a ceiling
suspended (paddle) fan weighing 35 lbs or less is provided with a
marking on the product ??ACCEPTABLE FOR FAN SUPPORT.?? A box, a
box with bracket, or bar hanger for support of a ceiling suspended
(paddle) fan weighing more than 35 lbs but not more than 70 lbs is provided
with a marking on the product ??ACCEPTABLE FOR FAN SUPPORT
up to 70 lbs.??
UL's listing information
CEILING SUSPENDED FAN SUPPORT
A box, a box with bracket, or bar hanger intended for support of a ceiling
suspended (paddle) fan weighing 35 lbs or less is provided with a
marking on the product ??ACCEPTABLE FOR FAN SUPPORT.?? A box, a
box with bracket, or bar hanger for support of a ceiling suspended
(paddle) fan weighing more than 35 lbs but not more than 70 lbs is provided
with a marking on the product ??ACCEPTABLE FOR FAN SUPPORT
up to 70 lbs.??
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
I'm not sure if that is correct. I think the pancake boxes that are rated for ceiling fans have 10/32 screws as a means of mounting fan supports whereas std. pancake boxes use 8/32's for mounting of the supports irrespective of whether you attach the base to a ceiling rafter.
Phil,
Gold Star Electric
[ November 21, 2005, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
Scott,
I'm not sure if that is correct. I think the pancake boxes that are rated for ceiling fans have 10/32 screws as a means of mounting fan supports whereas std. pancake boxes use 8/32's for mounting of the supports irrespective of whether you attach the base to a ceiling rafter.
Phil,
Gold Star Electric
[ November 21, 2005, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
If you mount the fan to the building's structure, you can use whatever type of box pleases you. It doesn't need to be fan rated. You only need a fan rated box if you're supporting the fan directly off that box.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Is it worth the problem you might have on the trim to not just simply use a fan rated box ?We usually never know what we will be hanging or what hardware it will come with.But as far as legal you can use any box you want.Just be prepaired for a hard install.
Is it worth the problem you might have on the trim to not just simply use a fan rated box ?We usually never know what we will be hanging or what hardware it will come with.But as far as legal you can use any box you want.Just be prepaired for a hard install.
big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
I just used a fan-rated pancake for the first time last weekend. The one I picked up was considerably sturdier than a standard pancake--the metal was much thicker--and it had 1/4-20 taps that would be used to mount the fan bracket. Unless I'm remembering something else, I think it was rated for a 70 pound fan or 150 pound fixture. Though, I gotta say, UL or no UL I wouldn't be comfortable hanging 150 pounds of anything from a box.
-John
I just used a fan-rated pancake for the first time last weekend. The one I picked up was considerably sturdier than a standard pancake--the metal was much thicker--and it had 1/4-20 taps that would be used to mount the fan bracket. Unless I'm remembering something else, I think it was rated for a 70 pound fan or 150 pound fixture. Though, I gotta say, UL or no UL I wouldn't be comfortable hanging 150 pounds of anything from a box.
-John
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
Just for the record, I always install fan rated boxes for fans. I was just craking on inspectors who do not know the difference. Last week I had an inspector who did not know what an IC recess light was. From the angle he was standing at he could not see that I had a 1/2" clearance between the top of my recess light and the sheeting of the roof. I pointed out that I did have a 1/2" clearance and anyway it was a moot point, since I use only IC cans when I am able. He asked me what IC means. But anyway he is a really nice guy, and gives me very little in the way of trouble.
Just for the record, I always install fan rated boxes for fans. I was just craking on inspectors who do not know the difference. Last week I had an inspector who did not know what an IC recess light was. From the angle he was standing at he could not see that I had a 1/2" clearance between the top of my recess light and the sheeting of the roof. I pointed out that I did have a 1/2" clearance and anyway it was a moot point, since I use only IC cans when I am able. He asked me what IC means. But anyway he is a really nice guy, and gives me very little in the way of trouble.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: 1/2" pancake boxes
That is correct but was referring to the box mounting screws
- Status