1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

We have gotten tagged for several panels this week having over 1/4 in set back on the panel.
on rough the rough in guy mounts the panel and sets green board on either side of the panel to the ceiling as a chase,then the drywallers cover and finish it by the time its done there is between 1/4 to 3/8 gap between panel face and the panel edge.So after getting tagged i had service go and remove the corner bead and drywall from the edge of 2x4.now the panel cover is flush.on recall the inspector again tags it this time with a note:have to see finished product and will not reinspect till its done !!!!! What does this have to do with the nec ????The builders are furious and so am I.I asked the inspector if we could use fire caulk on the exposed dry wall and no was the answer,he wont accept that,anyone run into this???

 

[websparky]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

NEC 2002 312.3 Position in Wall.
In walls of concrete, tile, or other noncombustible material, cabinets shall be installed so that the front edge of the cabinet is not set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (1/4 in.). In walls constructed of wood or other combustible material, cabinets shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.

Hope this helps!

Dave

 

[bennie]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

This is another section that has been corrupted by the passing of time.

A wood constructed wall covered with the heat shield of the space shuttle is a combustible wall.
Proof is in the land fill.

I carried on a year debate with the NEC code officials and the UL people, over this.

I maintained that sheetrock covering over wood did not meet the definition of non-combustible.

The NEC informed me that UL fire rating tests showed sheetrock to be non-combustible. I asked "were the tests performed from the inside or outside"? They said "the outside". I said "the fires start on the inside, wood does burn".

I was then informed that the setback was allowed for sheetrock. I asked for the code section. I was cut off then, no further contact.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Ok this is like trying to find a corner in a round room.......Does anyone know where i can get U.L.listings for fire caulk that would allow us to use it to fireproof the edges of sheetrock.The future problem has been resolved but this subdivision has about 100 homes in progress,I`d hate to see the backcharge war from ripping off the rock and finising it flush,This inspector also tagged a home for an incadescent fixture over the door that was 11 3/4 in. from the edge

 

[bennie]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

I don't know anything about the light fixture location.

What is the problem with roughing in the panel with 1/2 inch protruding from the stud? Are you using screws to fasten the panel?.

There should not be a gap between the panel and the cover. The sheetrock actually causes the problem. A panel on an unfinished wall will be in compliance.

You will find a corner by having the rough in person set the panel correctly. It is actually easy.

[ June 28, 2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[websparky]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Here is an idea!

You know how they make those metal extenders for recepticle boxes that are set back?
I'm wondering if you could get a sheet metal shop to make up some "picture frames" to ring the panels and in effect, isolate the exposed sheetrock sides? You may ask the inspector if he would find something like this acceptable.

Just an idea........

Dave

 

[curt swartz]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Allen

Do you have any pictures of this? I don't understand how you are installing these panels and why you need to remove the sheetrock to make the box flush. If the box is not set perfectly flush on rough why can't remove the screw and pull the box out a 1/4" or what ever it takes to make it flush at finish?
I'm confused

[ June 28, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: curt swartz ]

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Curt these panels are being mounted directly to a block wall with either tapcons or shot pins(back to back services)For astetic reasons we attach p.t. 2x4 to the sides that are wrapped with dry wall,these go up to the ceiling and are used as a chase,within 12 in. of the panel a 1x6 p.t. board is mounted to the block wall so the nm can be staples within 12 ins. of the connector.The problem with this is that p.t 2x4`s actually measure 31/2 to 3 3/4 in and since a standard residential panel is 4 ins. deep by the time it is finished it sometimes protrudes past the face
of the panel,what with corner bead and drywall mud.As of today we have about 200 to 250 hones in progress and of these there are at least 1/2 of those have this problem.All future roughs will be framed with a 2x4 ripped to 3 ins. so as to have the 1/2 in. backset required for the dry wall.But right now with at least 100 homes with this problem I am trying to find a way to avoid the backcharges that the dry waller levies to redo the dry wall around these panels.When this stared last week I went and removed the drywall and corner bead from the front of the panel and installed the cover (that was now flat against the panel itself)And recalled it for inspection,tagged again!!!!!!!same article with a foot note:want to see the drywall finished......
This is getting expensive 1st tag $30 2nd $60 3rd$100 multiply that by 100 homes well you get the picture..........Not to mention the backcharge from the drywaller

 

[curt swartz]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

OK....Now I understand what your problem is but unfortunately I don't have any good suggestions for you.

Its interesting that all load center manufactures make their trims adjustable to allow for the box not being flush with the finished surface but I guess this is a useless feature.

 

[pierre]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

In the '99 code the requirement for 1/8 inch space (gaps) around is not for panelboards, but for boxes - 370-21. This should not be an issue at all.

Pierre

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Pierre,
The section that is being violated is 312.3, not 314.20 or .21.
Don

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Don you correct 312.3 is the article cited,my thought is that if I can fire caulk the exposed drywall edges,then there is no risk of this being exposed to arching etc.etc..There are about 100 homes in progress with this senario,I am going to call the chief inspector to see if he will accept this on the homes in progress.I`ll let you know his reply

 

[ryan_618]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

As per the IBC, the fire caulk you use would have to meet the ASTM E 119:Test methods for fire tests of building construction and materials. This should be labelled on the tube you use. Note: don't use the ASTM E 136. Hope this helps

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

Wayne, I have run into this situation beforewhen mounting electrical panels in unfinished basements.Problem was solved by having the GC simply shoot two 2x4 studs to the wall from floor to ceiling. This allows for the panel to be mountd using the holes provided in most load centers on the side of the panel. Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[macmikeman]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

How about cutting a sheetrock backing piece the same size as your panel. duct tape it to the backside of the panel for a temporary hold. Install the panel to the cmu wall using longer tapcon screws than you were using before.

 

[jtb]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

macmikeman,

That's what we have done.
Works great if the drywall stays dry...
Plywood is better.

I think the problem is that these panels are already fastened (shot) to the concrete, and the drywall around it is finished.

I would try cutting the drywall paper back about a foot, and scraping a gradual bevel towards the box edge (sanding block?). Take it as deep as you can without messing up the edge. This would take a bit of time.....never mind, if you have 100 of these, shortest route is to bust out and do over with shims in the back.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: 1/4 in.set back on a residential panel

This whole issue has become a major thorn in my side........with as many homes as we do each month
(last month 225) It has become a major issue of what to do with the exisisting installations.Simple remove drywall from face of lumber, cut it back 3/4 in from the top of the panel and pay the backcharge for drywall repair around the panel. Future installations will have no lumber on the sides of cabinet and stop 3/4 in. from top.It will not look as pretty but with the cost of tags /backcharges it has become an issue.